Sharia Law 'Unavoidable' in the UK

[yermum]

So how many of you who are ranting about this, are aware of hw the Beth Din rules on points of religion when it comes to Jewish marriage? How many of you have ranted against the ways that divorce is granted under Jewish law?

None

So find out what you're talking about before you start. The Beth Din oversees all religious aspects in his country and most of you would hardly be aware of any of this. And who is to say that Sharia law would be any different?

Get your facts right before you start spouting.

 

[Spend_day]

OK, thanks for that compelling argument.

i thought the great was added because of our empire and general marshal skill and prowess

 

[Sankari]

are you saying that the law system in a country has nothing to do with its culture.

They are related, but not equivalent.

also surely sharia law and the Islamic religion as a whole has massive impacts on the cultures of Islamic countries the very culture multiculturalism is trying to protect

In fact, the reverse is true.

Sharia law does not define culture. On the contrary, Sharia law is defined according to the culture of the country in which it is found. It is not a static legal system; it exists in different forms all over the world

Some Indians are Muslims; their culture is Indian. Some Pakistanis are Muslims; their culture is Pakistani. Some Arabs are Muslims; their culture is Arabic. All of these people share the same religion, but they do not share the same culture.

Multiculturalism encourages a plurality of cultures. It does not encourage the plurality of legal systems. The imposition of Sharia law on a nation which already has its own legal system is contrary to the aims of multiculturalism.

and finally in wasn't a very serous comment

I see.

 

[Meridian]

You're comparing apples and oranges. Civil & criminal are simply two aspects of the same legal system;

One is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the other is "balance of probability". Difficult to see a more serious difference than that?


M

 

[strudey]

i thought the great was added because of our empire and general marshal skill and prowess

You thought wrong! 'Great' distinguished Great Britain from Brittany. See also the Christian Council of Britain, Privy Council of Britain, etc.

 

[platypus]

So how many of you who are ranting about this, are aware of hw the Beth Din rules on points of religion when it comes to Jewish marriage? How many of you have ranted against the ways that divorce is granted under Jewish law?

None

So find out what you're talking about before you start. The Beth Din oversees all religious aspects in his country and most of you would hardly be aware of any of this. And who is to say that Sharia law would be any different?

Get your facts right before you start spouting.

Indeed, get your facts right. You only need to read the thread to see that people are aware of it.

 

[Mr.Clark]

So how many of you who are ranting about this, are aware of hw the Beth Din rules on points of religion when it comes to Jewish marriage? How many of you have ranted against the ways that divorce is granted under Jewish law?

None

So find out what you're talking about before you start. The Beth Din oversees all religious aspects in his country and most of you would hardly be aware of any of this. And who is to say that Sharia law would be any different?

Get your facts right before you start spouting.

You don't hear of Beth Din practitioners in other countries being subjected to 12th century punishments (rape victims being found guilty of adultery, hands lopped off at the drop of a hat, death penalty for blasphemy etc).

So either it happens but doesn't make the news, or Sharia is a lot nastier.

Interestingly, there's a quote on Wiki about how Sharia is fundamentally incompatible with a democratic state.

 

[yak.h'cir]

Did they give examples of Jewish and Catholic law permitted by the Canadian government? Did they offer cases studies? I would be interested to see them. Do you know of any?

I'm not aware of any, it's not really something I've followed. I did have a quick google and found the following on the CBC news site:

Ontario has allowed Catholic and Jewish faith-based tribunals to settle family law matters on a voluntary basis since 1991, but the practice got little attention until Muslim leaders demanded the same rights.

I also found the following article which was quite interesting:
http://www.osamasaeed.org/osama/2006/12/muslim_law_reac.html

 

[Hen_Dawg]

This is getting out of hand. He's not talking about splitting the UK in two with completely separate laws, stop getting ahead of yourselves everyone!!

thats a bit harsh. no im not a Aryan and i have never worked for or supported the NSP.
i support multiculturalism. but Britain is going down the pan .the current culture of Britain is drug, booze and sex, this annoys me and i don't blame this one group, although i think we lack an identity as a people.

I was a bit harsh, I'm sorry.
But as you say there, many of the problems in England are about people on the poverty-line with poor education etc. Not foreigners ruining things.

The country's crap as it is, nevermind some ridiculous law.

What country is better? Plus you live in Nottingham, one of the worse cities in country

I disagree with that. The place I am, Oxford, is a very un-crap place.

I lived in Oxford for 6 years (Cowley area) and it is a fantastic example of how many cultures can live well together in a small space

 

[Spend_day]

So how many of you who are ranting about this, are aware of hw the Beth Din rules on points of religion when it comes to Jewish marriage? How many of you have ranted against the ways that divorce is granted under Jewish law?

None

So find out what you're talking about before you start. The Beth Din oversees all religious aspects in his country and most of you would hardly be aware of any of this. And who is to say that Sharia law would be any different?

Get your facts right before you start spouting.

i thought Beth Din was more of an addition to english law where both UK and beth din laws were complied with not just 1. before you shoot me down im not 100% sure and could be wrong

 

[scorza]

And he's an Anglican, which appears to mean "an agnostic who attends church" these days.

Rowan William's views are not universally popular within the Church. If he's not careful he could end up presiding over a schism.

 

[Sankari]

i thought the great was added because of our empire and general marshal skill and prowess

Alas, no. The "Great" existed long before Britain was even an empire, and has its origins in a Latin term.

The Romans referred to the island of Britain as Britannia Major to distinguish it from the French province of Brittany, which they called Britannia Minor. Under the Norman occupation, Britain was referred to as Grand Bretagne for the same reason.

Even today, the French still refer to Britain as Grand Bretagne to distinguish it from Bretagne (the French name for Brittany).

 

[scorza]

You don't hear of Beth Din practitioners in other countries being subjected to 12th century punishments (rape victims being found guilty of adultery, hands lopped off at the drop of a hat, death penalty for blasphemy etc).

So either it happens but doesn't make the news, or Sharia is a lot nastier.

Interestingly, there's a quote on Wiki about how Sharia is fundamentally incompatible with a democratic state.

Quite. I don't understand this argument that because we allow Beth Din we have to allow Sharia. They are quite different and should be treated on their individual attributes.

 

[Sankari]

Rowan William's views are not universally popular within the Church. If he's not careful he could end up presiding over a schism.

That reminds me: what's happening with the gay debate these days? It looked like a church-breaking issue for a while.

 

[PureAppleJuice]

I see a civil war in the future...not in my lifetime hopefully.

Oh yeah because that's the obvious conclusion

 

[Sankari]

One is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and the other is "balance of probability". Difficult to see a more serious difference than that?


M

What?

They are still part of the same legal system. That's the point. They are not two entirely separate legal systems. Sharia law is an entirely different legal system. That's the point.

Has the point been made clear to you now?

 

[Spend_day]

This is getting out of hand. He's not talking about splitting the UK in two with completely separate laws, stop getting ahead of yourselves everyone!!

yeah it is abit but i think the idea is once it starts where does it stop WHERE DOES IT ALL END ......

I was a bit harsh, I'm sorry.
But as you say there, many of the problems in England are about people on the poverty-line with poor education etc. Not foreigners ruining things.

its ok ive stopped crying now

i just wanna clear something up i never meant to imply it was the fault of foreigners just some said that the country was pretty bad and they couldn't wait to leave and i was agreeing

 

[inferno]

I can't see it happening anytime soon, this guy is a fool.


The thing is, the British public is silent, whereas the people who want these kind of laws shout much louder.

 

[Sankari]

So how many of you who are ranting about this, are aware of hw the Beth Din rules on points of religion when it comes to Jewish marriage? How many of you have ranted against the ways that divorce is granted under Jewish law?

None

So find out what you're talking about before you start. The Beth Din oversees all religious aspects in his country and most of you would hardly be aware of any of this. And who is to say that Sharia law would be any different?

Get your facts right before you start spouting.

Apples and oranges again. And while we're on the subject of getting facts straight, you've grossly overstated the power of the Beth Din.

The Beth Din in this country (UK) does not exist as an alternative legal system, and does not preside over civil and criminal cases. It only has the power to act as an arbitrator within the existing framework of the British legal system. Additionally, Jewish divorces still have to be formalised in civil courts by law, because the Beth Din cannot issue an officially recognised legal divorce.

Sharia law is a very different kettle of fish. If introduced as complete alternative legal system, it would cover every aspect of life. Even if the government only permitted the use of Sharia marriage & divorce law, these would still be in conflict with British law, since Sharia permits polygamy.

 

[stevenazari1]

Im going to kill everyone - make things easier.