Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2005
- Posts
- 12,488
- Location
- Bath
and i am a she, not a he
Epic barrage of posts incoming...
Shoplifting...
- Thread starter MisChief
- Start date
Epic barrage of posts incoming...
Just curious but what's the legality of what the shop did? i.e. detaining her until the police arrived and telling her to switch her phone off? AFAIK if you make a citizen's arrest you aren't allowed to wait for the police to arrive, you have to march them to the nearest police station or it's false imprisonment.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,798
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
ahh its great when people dont know their rights, shops take the michael...
they can 'ask' you to stay until the police arrive...but can they foricibly detain you?
the real fun starts when they try to bag you for shoplifting, when infact you have shoplifted nothing... thats when you sue them for slander/public defamation of character...
they can 'ask' you to stay until the police arrive...but can they foricibly detain you?
the real fun starts when they try to bag you for shoplifting, when infact you have shoplifted nothing... thats when you sue them for slander/public defamation of character...
Yeah but I thought that only the state could lawfully detain someone in this country - police or citizen's arrest. A while ago there was a case where a guy caught a kid throwing stones at his window, so he apprehended the kid, took him inside and treated him well until the police arrived. The guy got arrested for false imprisonment.
Associate
- Joined
- 9 Dec 2007
- Posts
- 2,408
Doubt it. Very much so.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 1 Aug 2004
- Posts
- 12,681
- Location
- Tyneside
What the shop did was quite lawful.
Section 24 of PACE governs arrest rights and powers for constables as well as citizens.
A citizen or shop staff can arrest someone without warrant is they reasonably suspect someone of committing an indictable offence ( of which theft is ) and one of the reasons they can do this is to detain them until a constable can assume responsibility for them, a valid reason being that they may make off.
There is no requirement to take them to the nearest police station.
If the person making the arrest believes that they have committed the offence and they can justify their actions then false imprisonment is not an issue.
As for the phone, they asked her to switch it off and she did. I can't see a legal issue with this although I will stand corrected if someone knows any different.
Associate
- Joined
- 3 Jan 2010
- Posts
- 1,379
I didn't support any generalising of the person reoffending (assuming she would), just stated the reoffending rates and pointed out reoffending is a problem. If your entire argument relies on me proving if someone I don't know in a place I don't know has reoffended or not then I don't care because I wasn't making that point as I pointed out I was just showing you reoffending rates to highlight it is possible whereas most were being naive to the possibility.Err.. I asked him to prove his position.
Why don't you show me the evidence proving this case first, then I will disprove it.
That's it, because there is none.. so you can't.
I too can make generalising sweeping comments.
Associate
- Joined
- 3 Jan 2010
- Posts
- 1,379
I don't know, I won't pretend to know or imply she will reoffend. My point was just to show people reoffending is a problem but for each specific crime it would be hard to find data. Like I said in my post I would have just told her not to do it again as I'm not going to judge people on single mistakes (unless they are real bad ones) but I'd not like to be around her if she did reoffend. Clearly I opted to give her the benefit of the doubt by saying I would still hang with her though.
When I worked at Currys, and did a stint as a security guard, we were constantly reminded that we aren't allowed to reprimand someone we think (or even certainly know) to be a shoplifter. We can invite them to the manager's office where they can wait for the police to arrive, but that's it. If they want to leave, we must allow them to. The best a security guard can do is try to reason with you. If you (the guard) so much as touch them, you can be charged with assault.
EDIT: lol.. forgot to post where I was getting at.. your friend should have just walked away and hope the police don't recognise her from the CCTV .
EDIT: lol.. forgot to post where I was getting at.. your friend should have just walked away and hope the police don't recognise her from the CCTV .
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jan 2007
- Posts
- 10,608
- Location
- Sussex, UK
I hope she gets 20 years in prison.
Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 2,584
- Location
- God's own country
But it's OK when shoplifters take the mick by stealing but not when the shops try to protect what's theirs?
I'd bloody forcibly detain them if it was MY things they were stealing! If you found someone burgling your house would you only "ask" them to hang around for the rozzers?
Seems your morals are a little skew whiff.
Not quite the same thing though. The employees do not own the items that are being stolen and it is not their property.
Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 2,584
- Location
- God's own country
Not quite true.
As employees or patrons, we all pay for everything that is shoplifted from these places one way or another.
Please remember there is NO SUCH THING as a victimless crime!
Doing 50.5mph on a 50mph road in which you are in the middle of 10 lanes and the nearest car is 20 miles away, you have no passengers, nothing to crash in to and indeed do not crash.