Short film making

anksta

anksta

anksta

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Joined
19 Jan 2005
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I've made 2 separate threads on here in the past about making films and always received some handy advice, I've never actually made anything though.

I'm a writer, that's what I do and thankfully you don't need a budget or loads of people who all have different demands and loads of other stuff, I can just stare at a blank page and that's me doing it.

Anyway, I need to make this short film now to get somewhere with my life, it's never going to go anywhere otherwise. I have a script that has been written, rewritten, table read and edited, there's almost nothing else I can do with it but make it myself.

It's set on a tube train, has 4 characters and only internal monologues. Forgetting the difficulties of portraying that on film, how to get started on an actual production is a joke. I've got about 3 people who have half arsedly offered to help and that's it.

The things I need are:

Money
A camera
Lighting
Actors
Location permission
Editing
Insurance

Those are just the obvious things and I have no idea where to start, I can get the actors but with nothing to commit to and I can't pay them. I can get the location but I wouldn't know when we could use it just yet. I have no idea how much I'll need and while I'm in a position where I can afford to spend money of my own, I'm not in a position to waste any of it.

What I need more than any of this is a producer who can sort all this out for me.

I've been reading guides and watching videos all day today and just feel like I'm finding out more stuff I don't know, which isn't helping at all.

Can anyone help me out? Talk me through a few of these things please?
 
If you are really serious about it, then you need to put some money into it, otherwise its just not going to happen. If you really believe you are onto something with your script, then be prepared to back it, its not just going to happen for you otherwise.

If funding is your biggest issue, perhaps look into finding people who also wish to partner you and give some funding. Filmmaking while creative, is little different to any other business. At the bottom end, there is a huge risk that you won't recoup any of your costs, but it may lead to bigger and better things.
 
If your half-promised actors cannot be relied on I would suggest you may find some willing drama students would jump at the chance when the time comes.
 
Nexus said:
If you are really serious about it, then you need to put some money into it, otherwise its just not going to happen. If you really believe you are onto something with your script, then be prepared to back it, its not just going to happen for you otherwise.

If funding is your biggest issue, perhaps look into finding people who also wish to partner you and give some funding. Filmmaking while creative, is little different to any other business. At the bottom end, there is a huge risk that you won't recoup any of your costs, but it may lead to bigger and better things.
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It's not that I'm not willing to back it myself - if it gets made. I don't expect any money back in the slightest, the best I could hope for in a million years would be to have it accepted a short festival. The best I'm hoping for in a realistic sense is that it gets made.

What I'm not willing to do is fork out for a film permit on the underground or equipment rental when I don't have other things in place.

I'm chicken and the egg'ing at the minute and that's what I need help with.

isonomicjedi said:
If your half-promised actors cannot be relied on I would suggest you may find some willing drama students would jump at the chance when the time comes.
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That's probably going to be what happens anyway but the problem with not paying anyone is that they'll just flake if even the slightest better offer comes along.
 
So you have written a script, its a good start but the hard part is getting it made.

At my time at uni I read a lot of scripts. The majority of which were terrible. Technical students are always interested in good scripts as it allows them to focus on their craft. If the script is good enough you should seek the support of students to help get it made.

In Scotland we have a Facebook resource (link below) which consists of independent actors/tech that are always willing to contribute to a worth while project. I assume there will be similar for other parts of the UK. Be aware though that half of the people that claim to have experience simply don't.

You should also try a script workshop - writers with scripts get together and act out scenes - usually actors will be there too looking for an interesting part. Its a really great development tool. The CCA hosts one in Glasgow.

Also I would not worry too much at the moment about technical crew, simply get a student director on your side and you will do alright. Although you may have to do the donkey work and produce it.

....And another thing, if it does go ahead and you do not pay anyone provide a good lunch!! People don't expect to eat out, but a £25 picnic for 6 people speaks volumes. Full stomachs = happy times.

Oh, and best of luck!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/scottishfilmmakersandactors/?fref=ts
 
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campbell said:
So you have written a script, its a good start but the hard part is getting it made.

At my time at uni I read a lot of scripts. The majority of which were terrible. Technical students are always interested in good scripts as it allows them to focus on their craft. If the script is good enough you should seek the support of students to help get it made.

In Scotland we have a Facebook resource (link below) which consists of independent actors/tech that are always willing to contribute to a worth while project. I assume there will be similar for other parts of the UK. Be aware though that half of the people that claim to have experience simply don't.

You should also try a script workshop - writers with scripts get together and act out scenes - usually actors will be there too looking for an interesting part. Its a really great development tool. The CCA hosts one in Glasgow.

Also I would not worry too much at the moment about technical crew, simply get a student director on your side and you will do alright. Although you may have to do the donkey work and produce it.

....And another thing, if it does go ahead and you do not pay anyone provide a good lunch!! People don't expect to eat out, but a £25 picnic for 6 people speaks volumes. Full stomachs = happy times.

Oh, and best of luck!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/scottishfilmmakersandactors/?fref=ts
Click to expand...

Alright mate yeah it's not the first script I've written, I've had work performed at the BBC before and I have an editor looking at a feature I've written now. I've not done so bad with the writing given I didn't go to film school and whatnot but it feels like with those limited connections, the best thing I can do for myself is put something out myself.

As I think I said in my OP I've had a table read with the script at the London Comedy Writers, I've only been there 3 or 4 times so I've only seen like 10 or 12 things in total performed there and I don't want to sound arrogant but I think mine went down the best there in terms of number of laughs and the quality of comments after.

I've taken those notes on in term of tightening and cutting the length slightly so I think it's definitely ready to go, good as it can be.

Do you know of any groups like that in London? If I do get it made and I'm not paying anyone I'll definitely be paying for food and transport and whatnot.

eyyaz - a friend of mine suggest ShootingPeople to me today, we're going to go to the next meeting, see if it's worth paying for then.

I'm thinking I might just post the ads on Gumtree for certain things like an AD, cinematographer maybe and try and get them pinned down with interest and go from there, surely an ok starting point is better than none at all?
 
jsmoke said:
What can you say, you have all of google to help.

For example it took me 3secs to find this, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/5225.aspx#page-link-permits

Why don't you just film it on your phone and find a cheaper(free) location.:)
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I've already been on there and read every bit of it, to get the permit you need more than the script, also need to have insurance etc and the permit is only valid for one month once granted.

I don't want to just film it on my phone in the park or whatever because I want to make a short film, not a homemade video to show to a couple of my mates and cringe about in 6 months.
 
It's always worth sending your script to competitions.

Failing that, getting out to events and networking with various industry folk is always a good way to start.

Aside from financing it yourself, which you can do but finding cast a crew with no contacts will be very, very difficult, you really need to get talking to people. This industry is all about who you know.
 
Mandy.com is always great to post up on. You can find a lot of what you're looking for, from free to cheap.

It all seems relativly easy, and cheap to do minus the shooting on the train part. You'd have to conact TFL I think, and it's not cheap.
 
I'm always lurking around your threads, anksta! In a random order:


Having a producer is important, if not just for to ensure the competent organisation of the pre-production stuff, then for your sanity on the day. If you are directing (I'm assuming so), and it is your first time, you will have a thousand unforeseen problems to deal with already and you don't want more. A producer would free you up so you can do your job. They are willing to work for free, like any crew members, but the trade off is a lack of experience.

Websites like Star Now and Casting Call Pro have hundreds of actors' profiles for you to browse. Many will work for free, but you MUST audition as many as you can because some of them will be terrible. Our hit rate is 10%.

You simply must have some sort of budget. You will at least need to provide drinks and meals for cast & crew, transport fees for those working for free, and sundries depending upon the requirements of your script.

Does the location have to be a train? Are you shooting in London? I know that Aldwych tube station is closed and used for film shoots now, perhaps you could ask them if they are prepared to help you out for free.

I don't know anything about the insurance, except that it's probably vital.

Kit: all of it is super expensive, so buying is out of the question. We get ours because we're good friends with kit suppliers. You should become good friends with kit suppliers. Otherwise, you'll have to find people who own it and beg them, or hire it. Work out a list of what you'd need and see how much it would cost, it might be cheaper than you think. Failing that, have you thought about 'Blair Witching' (justifying the use of mobile phone cameras, CCTV, and other cheap & easy devices)? Even GoPros are reasonable prices and good quality. Again, this depends heavily on your script.

A proper editor makes a huge difference, if you can't do it yourself - find one. The obvious free dudes are editing course students.


Our ten-minute film took about a year of off-and-on pre-production, a day of filming, and about eight months of post-production, and that's with chaps who are all skilled in their fields.
 
I should add, if you would like a more technical breakdown of what kit you might need (and other considerations), feel free to email me the script and I can pass it on to the producer and director that I work with. I understand if you don't want to show it about, of course. :)
 
Edrof (sorry for the hijack): how would you go about getting an animated short film made? Basically the same process?
 
THMRK said:
It's always worth sending your script to competitions.

Failing that, getting out to events and networking with various industry folk is always a good way to start.

Aside from financing it yourself, which you can do but finding cast a crew with no contacts will be very, very difficult, you really need to get talking to people. This industry is all about who you know.
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I've already won one competition and advanced through the rounds in several others, including one in Hollywood. The guys from Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia also sent me and my writing partner a confidentiality agreement to give our script an official read last month too.

Believe me, I'm under no allusions how ridiculous this business is.

RIZZEE said:
Mandy.com is always great to post up on. You can find a lot of what you're looking for, from free to cheap.

It all seems relativly easy, and cheap to do minus the shooting on the train part. You'd have to conact TFL I think, and it's not cheap.
Click to expand...

I've been through this and the TFL thing is most likely to be the cheapest part. It's £500 an hour for proper productions.

Or £50 for an afternoon for students/amateurs.

Edrof said:
I'm always lurking around your threads, anksta! In a random order:


Having a producer is important, if not just for to ensure the competent organisation of the pre-production stuff, then for your sanity on the day. If you are directing (I'm assuming so), and it is your first time, you will have a thousand unforeseen problems to deal with already and you don't want more. A producer would free you up so you can do your job. They are willing to work for free, like any crew members, but the trade off is a lack of experience.

Websites like Star Now and Casting Call Pro have hundreds of actors' profiles for you to browse. Many will work for free, but you MUST audition as many as you can because some of them will be terrible. Our hit rate is 10%.

You simply must have some sort of budget. You will at least need to provide drinks and meals for cast & crew, transport fees for those working for free, and sundries depending upon the requirements of your script.

Does the location have to be a train? Are you shooting in London? I know that Aldwych tube station is closed and used for film shoots now, perhaps you could ask them if they are prepared to help you out for free.

I don't know anything about the insurance, except that it's probably vital.

Kit: all of it is super expensive, so buying is out of the question. We get ours because we're good friends with kit suppliers. You should become good friends with kit suppliers. Otherwise, you'll have to find people who own it and beg them, or hire it. Work out a list of what you'd need and see how much it would cost, it might be cheaper than you think. Failing that, have you thought about 'Blair Witching' (justifying the use of mobile phone cameras, CCTV, and other cheap & easy devices)? Even GoPros are reasonable prices and good quality. Again, this depends heavily on your script.

A proper editor makes a huge difference, if you can't do it yourself - find one. The obvious free dudes are editing course students.


Our ten-minute film took about a year of off-and-on pre-production, a day of filming, and about eight months of post-production, and that's with chaps who are all skilled in their fields.
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Alright Matt, yeah I know you're always on my back. I always appreciate your input though, your 2 penneth is always appreciated mate.

Getting a producer was my first goal but that seems to be as easy as just saying 'just make it yourself'.

All those difficulties you mentioned are why I'm not just wading into this and wasting money and time before I know what's what. I can't just sit on the fringes any with my scripts any more because biting around the edges (as far as I have gotten which I think is reasonably respectable) but just diving in without thinking is going to cost me too much time and money I haven't got - especially money.

The budget I reckon can be £1,000 to start with. I reckon that's a decent number to work with in the beginning. I'm hoping to do it for (much) cheaper obviously but an arbitrary point to start with like that seems OK right now.

I reckon I could get the equipment for free, I don't need mics as it's all inner monologue that can be recorded later and I know at least 3 people with top end SLRs that are capable of doing video, at least one of them would let me use it I think.

The location has to be a train though yeah, the whole point is a tube train stuck in the tunnel. I did think though today that stuck in a station would work too as the whole thing rests on the fact these 4 characters can't just get their phones out and talk to someone else.

I suppose I could just jump on anywhere super early in the morning and pull the alarm, that might work. Probably get done for that though.
 
Edrof said:
I should add, if you would like a more technical breakdown of what kit you might need (and other considerations), feel free to email me the script and I can pass it on to the producer and director that I work with. I understand if you don't want to show it about, of course. :)
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You can read it if you want mate, I'm not bothered about people reading it at all. I've already had one public reading of it done and this bird I slept with decided to steal it and leave it on a tube train for no reason whatsoever.

Someone emailed me and said they liked it and everything. I insulted him for about 20 minutes thinking it was a windup before I found out what happened.

Whack me an email and I'll send it over, will appreciate your feedback.
 
I am no expert whatsoever but I did do some research a while back about similar, and it's a bit like web design, loads of people are trying to do it with the goal of doing it for a living, but even pros with media degrees are struggling to find work just now. Wouldn't want you to waste your money, but if it's a hobby then that a bit different.

It generally comes down to money and your ability to attract people. Even the big Hollywood movies are generally paid for and even in profit before they even start filming.


This is the site I was looking at for info. http://www.indietalk.com/

Maybe do a college course and find some kind of group, there must be a few although I would imagine some could be quite cliquey, maybe not though.

I actually have a great idea for a movie based on a real life event, I think it could work well.
 
jsmoke said:
I am no expert whatsoever but I did do some research a while back about similar, and it's a bit like web design, loads of people are trying to do it with the goal of doing it for a living, but even pros with media degrees are struggling to find work just now. Wouldn't want you to waste your money, but if it's a hobby then that a bit different.

It generally comes down to money and your ability to attract people. Even the big Hollywood movies are generally paid for and even in profit before they even start filming.


This is the site I was looking at for info. http://www.indietalk.com/

Maybe do a college course and find some kind of group, there must be a few although I would imagine some could be quite cliquey, maybe not though.

I actually have a great idea for a movie based on a real life event, I think it could work well.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate gonna get on that site now and get begging.

It's not a hobby for me no, the screenwriting at least. I'm doing reasonably well in terms of getting somewhere but I have a full time job and things already and this would be done like a hobby until it's feasible not to, if you get me.

If I could get this made and it did alright I'd immediately begin production on another.

Everyone else blows all their money on travelling and whatnot and I've done enough of that for me, quite happy to spend my money on this for a while if it gets me somewhere down the line.
 
The screenwriting tutor in my uni recommended a one year course in Bristol uni which essentially gives you crash course in how to make a film on a shoestring budget. Might be worth looking that up.

She did that and now works for the BBC.
 
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