I don't think you know until you see a loved one go through it.
But you don't really know until you go through it.
I Truely hope this comes in by time it happens to me. I get the impression most deaths are horrible?
Should assisted suicide be legal (for everyone)?
- Thread starter dowie
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I don't think you know until you see a loved one go through it.
But you don't really know until you go through it.
I Truely hope this comes in by time it happens to me. I get the impression most deaths are horrible?
When there's no hope (ie cancer) I do not understand how it can't be allowed.
Seeing my partners mum go was so grim. She wanted to go. Then start to lose your mind, so your basically dead anyway.
I'd rather go before then.
Its pure cruelty to force life at that point.
Many have lost their minds long before they die. Watched it happen to one of my grandads, its like to use a pun 'the lights are on but no one's home' mind long since gone but the body is kept alive with drugs. The last 2 years of his life were really just horrible in a home, really dont think many people would choose to end their days crapping themselves and living like a zombie so we really need the option to decide before they reach that stage. Grandma died of cancer which was also not nice but quicker in the end. Just one grandparent left now still going strong at 88. But makes you think about parents and how they will be the next ones going through this. Genuinely makes me shudder.
Soldato
There is a young woman in my long covid group who has been suffering. Its not helped that her family, friends, and even doctors have been encouraging her to exercise when that is against the guidelines, and makes the condition worse.
So because she is refusing to exercise the people around her are acting like shes purposely being stubborn. She tried exercising for them and immediately physically crashed afterwards.
At one point she was put in a hospital and her parents have nearly totally emotionally abandoned her.
She announced that she's been accepted for the assisted dying programme. She's in Ohio though I'm not sure if that is the place they go.
I, and others, have been trying to get her to think twice about it. I've posted all the treatments and trials in progress on the subject.
I feel bad for her. But cases like this are likely to be the majority of cases if we get assisted dying in any version. These cases aren't clear cut and will be different for each person.
So because she is refusing to exercise the people around her are acting like shes purposely being stubborn. She tried exercising for them and immediately physically crashed afterwards.
At one point she was put in a hospital and her parents have nearly totally emotionally abandoned her.
She announced that she's been accepted for the assisted dying programme. She's in Ohio though I'm not sure if that is the place they go.
I, and others, have been trying to get her to think twice about it. I've posted all the treatments and trials in progress on the subject.
I feel bad for her. But cases like this are likely to be the majority of cases if we get assisted dying in any version. These cases aren't clear cut and will be different for each person.
Soldato
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my gran (on the other side of the family) was very vocal and had a DNR on her bed after having a couple of strokes but surviving them. she had another one, a massive one, and for what ever reason the doctor ignored the DNR and brought her back after she crashed.
she had a further 3 years or so in a home, in a nappy with the mentality of a 2 year old.......... what the doctor was thinking i do not know and to be honest had my dad not been in such a mess over it all, i would have been tempted to suggest he look into making a formal complaint, but i decided he was struggling enough as it was without pulling at that thread.
My dad is 78 now and looks more frail every time i see him, my mum a bit younger but has COPD and i suspect will need an oxygen tank soon. not directly relevant to this thread (as i am not suggesting euthanising them)
but getting old sucks (but generally for the most part is better than the alternative)
she had a further 3 years or so in a home, in a nappy with the mentality of a 2 year old.......... what the doctor was thinking i do not know and to be honest had my dad not been in such a mess over it all, i would have been tempted to suggest he look into making a formal complaint, but i decided he was struggling enough as it was without pulling at that thread.
My dad is 78 now and looks more frail every time i see him, my mum a bit younger but has COPD and i suspect will need an oxygen tank soon. not directly relevant to this thread (as i am not suggesting euthanising them)
but getting old sucks (but generally for the most part is better than the alternative)
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Soldato
We already have assisted suicide - Doctors basically dose dying people up on opiates until their are completely out of it and their respiratory system crashes.
Why they can't be honest about this and let people make up their own minds about when they've had enough I just don't understand. I've seen several older relatives die like this and it's so undignified - especially if their body has already wasted away due to cancer and they are a shell of their former selves.
We wouldn't treat animals like this, but seem to think it's ok for people.
Why they can't be honest about this and let people make up their own minds about when they've had enough I just don't understand. I've seen several older relatives die like this and it's so undignified - especially if their body has already wasted away due to cancer and they are a shell of their former selves.
We wouldn't treat animals like this, but seem to think it's ok for people.
The problem is you are literally consigning people to unnecessarily painful, lingering deaths now, because of some change that you think might possibly happen in the future. Also, if you are talking about physically fit people suffering from depression asking to be euthanised, I shouldn't really have to point out that unfortunately such people do already take matters into their own hands. A quick search shows that in 2022, 5642 people committed suicide in the UK. I would guess that a significant proportion of them were suffering from some form of depression and that improving mental healthcare provision would be of more use to them, than blocking a law that would give a dignified exit to those in the greatest need who are not in a position to resolve the situation on their own.
Absolutely should be legal, with stringent safeguards. Are our own lives not our own? Is our suffering and pain not our own? Is it morally right to tell another person who is suffering greatly and terminally ill that you have no control over your own suffering and the timing of your inevitable death? That you must suffer because A) God doesn't approve and/or B) the safeguards might fail?
Why would safeguards fail if they are done properly and surely God (if he/she exists) would be compassionate enough to let someone end their own suffering. It's ridiculous that a UK citizen can be euthanised if they have the money to go to switzerland, yet if you are not well off, terminally ill and in great pain, you have no choice but to suffer until the end. The MP's won't vote it through, they are a mix of religious diehards who think it's a sin and scare mongerers saying people will eventually be euthanised for spurious reasons.
Why would safeguards fail if they are done properly and surely God (if he/she exists) would be compassionate enough to let someone end their own suffering. It's ridiculous that a UK citizen can be euthanised if they have the money to go to switzerland, yet if you are not well off, terminally ill and in great pain, you have no choice but to suffer until the end. The MP's won't vote it through, they are a mix of religious diehards who think it's a sin and scare mongerers saying people will eventually be euthanised for spurious reasons.
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Soldato
I think an adult of sound mind should be allowed to end their life if they so choose. It is their life, after all.
Associate
yes...its there choice
Soldato
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i think one of the horrible things is that.... some will say already if things are that bad, people who are at home can always take a boatful of pills anyway.
the problem there is that (aside from that not helping those in hospital) people could be a week off death anyway due to a totally uncurable disease, however the moment they took pills to take the humane way out, i would expect that that would void any insurance policies they had, so that leaves the person at end of life having to decide to take the humane option but leave their family potentially massively out of pocket, or take the long drawn out way out.
the problem there is that (aside from that not helping those in hospital) people could be a week off death anyway due to a totally uncurable disease, however the moment they took pills to take the humane way out, i would expect that that would void any insurance policies they had, so that leaves the person at end of life having to decide to take the humane option but leave their family potentially massively out of pocket, or take the long drawn out way out.
Latest petition passed 200k signatories. MPs are to debate it but no binding vote will be held.
Esther Rantzen begs MPs to attend assisted dying debate
Parliament will debate the subject after more than 200,000 signed a petition backing a law change.
www.bbc.co.uk
Man of Honour
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It should absolutely be legal. I wish the government would get the hell out of my life with laws still based on an outdated, archaic religious mindset that few in the UK prescribe to.
There is also a much greater chance of someone botching the job if trying to do it themselves on their deathbed, resulting in more trauma for their loved ones. Plus they have to take action whilst they are still able, which may well mean going earlier than necessary to avoid the risk of the option being taken from them as they near the end.
If the law does ever change I suspect that a lot of people will still elect to fight on to the bitter end regardless, which is fine as long as that is their choice.
Soldato
Would someone suffering from mental health so severely they were going to take their lives even bother with assisted suicide anyway if it were available? I’d have thought not because they know they’d have to ‘explain’ their reasoning but obviously I could be very wrong on that.
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Soldato
I think individuals should be able to end their life when they so choose, but I also think insurance companies should be able to offer insurance policies that do *not* cover suicide. (So long as it is clearly stated in the policy)
Some insurance policies will pay out on a terminal diagnosis. But your point is an example of why there needs to be a robust legal framework in place. There is potentially a huge difference between:
- A terminally ill person choosing to die a bit earlier as part of a supervised official process (no real reason why the insurance company should be let off the hook).
- An "unexpected" suicide of someone that has (at the risk of hyperbole) just taken out a huge life insurance policy because they were planning to end it all and lied to the insurance company because they wanted a big payment to go to their family.
If you don't snuff it without warning in your sleep, ideally in your bed and not a driving seat, it can take years of body and/or mental state decline.
Depends what perspective you want to take. The biggest cause of death right now turns your brain into a sponge, you might not understand a single thing or have any memories left when you die but someone will have had to care for your body til you did and handle your relentless confusion. So who's that actually horrible for.
Soldato
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Yes.
This is the absolute matter of conscience and I do not have an issue with people having a different view point to my own. And I am certainly not going to claim they are wrong to do so.
As I have said in Canada, Belgium and the Netherlands three western progressive democracies, like the UK, the law has extended in intent to the point healthy people are being euthanised in a manner I find troubling. I cannot in good conscience support it.
Suspended
I understand what you're saying and that you don't have an issue with people having an alternate view. However, that view does impinge on other people's ability to live and die how they choose to.
I don't feel I have any right whatsoever to determine that for anyone else. At all. My conscience could not stand forcing people to suffer in pain just to satisfying the opinion of others.