Should i move back to IPS for gaming?

Siamak8286

Siamak8286

Siamak8286

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7 May 2012
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12
Dear Overclockers community...
I've been in search for a replacement for my old 22 inch Samsung monitor and over the past 4-5 months I went through some horrible experience with my choices. when I first heard about the new batch of 2nd generation 120hz monitors I decided to go ahead and buy one, not cuz of the 3D but for the smoothness and they sure are smoother than regular 60hz but I didn't have a clue what TN, PVA, IPS was back then....


So I finally got my hand on a 27 inch Asus VG278H and when it arrived, unit suffered from horrible backlight bleeding/ovale shape in the middle of the screen :(and that was my first experience with LED backlight bleeding. So I exchanged almost 4-5 times and all of them had the same or worst backlight bleeding and ovale shape in the middle so I waited a few months and purchased a Dell U2711 which is a IPS (2560x1440) and first when I turned it on I was blown away by how good the quality of the unit was and how much real state I had over my previous monitors and games looked very good as well but they felt slowish/laggy compared to the Asus VG278H I had ( I'm not sure if that cuz I just moved from 120hz TN to IPS or not ):confused:
So after about a week of using the Dell I thought I can't get used to it so I returned it and purchased the Benq XL2420TX and when It arrived it came with defective 3d, horrible colors ( which got much better after calibration) and some backlight bleeding.


I exchanged the Benq with another one and this one has almost as much backlight bleeding as the Asus VG278H and it irritates the hell out of me:mad:
All in all im just tiered that I cant find the screen Im looking for, quality and performance and now Im not sure if I should return to IPS or stay with Benq and get another exchange? as far as IPS im thinking about Dell U2410 but not sure if it's suitable for gaming at all or not. im not sure if it helps or not but im mostly play RPG games and action adventure games like ( Alan Wake, Darksiders, Dead Space, Kingdom of Amalur, World of Warcraft, Starcraft ) and some FPS like Crysis, Crysis 2 and COD Black Ops, but im not a professional tournament FPS gamer and I really don't understand some of the terms used for monitors such as input lag, ghosting.
 
Well the u2412m is basically the better choice when compared to the u2410 for gaming as it's cheaper and has less input lag. The u2410 does come with better warranty from Dell which might be nice to know considering your 'history'.
The u2412m also has a nice review by tftcentral.co.uk which compares it to the u2410 and explains terms such as input lag and ghosting.
 
I'm about to buy the U2412M later today as I want a 2nd 24" screen and this will be used as my main screen while my existing Hazro HZ24Wi (h-IPS) which I've had since before release (early tester) has powered through everything (and lots and lots of gaming).

I've had no problems with input lag on the Hazro or the HP 24" IPS screen either which I owned briefly. I am an FPS gamer.

Looking forward to the U2412M as the reviews favour it quite a lot and it also looks rather military and pro.

IPS is definitely where it's at.
 
I disagree here, ips is not the way to go. I am like you and have owned all the screens you have mentioned and am finally using the ben xl2420t. I must admit that my screen is perfect with no back light bleed and the colours are great now i am using pcm2's settings.

Ultimately its up to you but i could never go back to 60hz.
 
Siamak8286 said:
Dear Overclockers community...
I've been in search for a replacement for my old 22 inch Samsung monitor and over the past 4-5 months I went through some horrible experience with my choices. when I first heard about the new batch of 2nd generation 120hz monitors I decided to go ahead and buy one, not cuz of the 3D but for the smoothness and they sure are smoother than regular 60hz but I didn't have a clue what TN, PVA, IPS was back then....


So I finally got my hand on a 27 inch Asus VG278H and when it arrived, unit suffered from horrible backlight bleeding/ovale shape in the middle of the screen :(and that was my first experience with LED backlight bleeding. So I exchanged almost 4-5 times and all of them had the same or worst backlight bleeding and ovale shape in the middle so I waited a few months and purchased a Dell U2711 which is a IPS (2560x1440) and first when I turned it on I was blown away by how good the quality of the unit was and how much real state I had over my previous monitors and games looked very good as well but they felt slowish/laggy compared to the Asus VG278H I had ( I'm not sure if that cuz I just moved from 120hz TN to IPS or not ):confused:
So after about a week of using the Dell I thought I can't get used to it so I returned it and purchased the Benq XL2420TX and when It arrived it came with defective 3d, horrible colors ( which got much better after calibration) and some backlight bleeding.


I exchanged the Benq with another one and this one has almost as much backlight bleeding as the Asus VG278H and it irritates the hell out of me:mad:
All in all im just tiered that I cant find the screen Im looking for, quality and performance and now Im not sure if I should return to IPS or stay with Benq and get another exchange? as far as IPS im thinking about Dell U2410 but not sure if it's suitable for gaming at all or not. im not sure if it helps or not but im mostly play RPG games and action adventure games like ( Alan Wake, Darksiders, Dead Space, Kingdom of Amalur, World of Warcraft, Starcraft ) and some FPS like Crysis, Crysis 2 and COD Black Ops, but im not a professional tournament FPS gamer and I really don't understand some of the terms used for monitors such as input lag, ghosting.
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Jesus, you sound like a retailers worst nightmare.
 
kitch9 said:
Jesus, you sound like a retailers worst nightmare.
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I'm very picky in regard to a product I pay for since it's very hard in my situation to earn and save money, do yea im very picky if that's what you mean. But I really didn't come here and share my story to be judged about my OCD. My intention was seeking honest and helpfull opinions regarding the situation im in.
 
Unfortunately, there is no "one size fits all" flat panel display yet. IPS and TN both have some notable advantages and disadvantages, and neither one will fit the mould perfectly.

IPS panels typically have better colour reproduction, panel uniformity, contrast and viewing angles. However, they are susceptible to higher input lag and image trailing/"ghosting" (pixel response time). This means in high speed, action-oriented games you may notice blurring and imprecise response, provided you are sensitive to such things.

TN panels have much better input response and pixel response (less ghosting), but suffer from poorer colour reproduction, viewing angles, contrast and panel uniformity. This means larger TN panels (27" +) are somewhat unwieldy, as the viewing angles are more acute at the edges and you'll be more likely to notice shifts in luminance across the panel due to the increased size.

From the above: IPS are generally better for photography/image professionals, or gamers who play less action-oriented games (MMO, RPG, RTS). TN panels are better if you want to play FPS/action games, particularly 120hz panels, but be aware of the generally poorer image quality and accept it when going down this route. I would not recommend buying a TN panel above 24" either, but that's for you to decide.

Plus, the u2711 made your games play more "sluggish" because of the increased resolution. Resolutions above 1920x1080/1200 usually require a second video-card or a more powerful, enthusiast solution (GTX 680, HD 7970) for smooth performance at that resolution.
 
shanomacadaemia said:
Unfortunately, there is no "one size fits all" flat panel display yet. IPS and TN both have some notable advantages and disadvantages, and neither one will fit the mould perfectly.

IPS panels typically have better colour reproduction, panel uniformity, contrast and viewing angles. However, they are susceptible to higher input lag and image trailing/"ghosting" (pixel response time). This means in high speed, action-oriented games you may notice blurring and imprecise response, provided you are sensitive to such things.

TN panels have much better input response and pixel response (less ghosting), but suffer from poorer colour reproduction, viewing angles, contrast and panel uniformity. This means larger TN panels (27" +) are somewhat unwieldy, as the viewing angles are more acute at the edges and you'll be more likely to notice shifts in luminance across the panel due to the increased size.

From the above: IPS are generally better for photography/image professionals, or gamers who play less action-oriented games (MMO, RPG, RTS). TN panels are better if you want to play FPS/action games, particularly 120hz panels, but be aware of the generally poorer image quality and accept it when going down this route. I would not recommend buying a TN panel above 24" either, but that's for you to decide.

Plus, the u2711 made your games play more "sluggish" because of the increased resolution. Resolutions above 1920x1080/1200 usually require a second video-card or a more powerful, enthusiast solution (GTX 680, HD 7970) for smooth performance at that resolution.
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Not to take away too much from what you've said but you have mixed a couple of things up. TN panel monitors are typically superior to IPS panel monitors when it comes to contrast. They typically yield higher static contrast ratios although IPS panel monitors have certainly 'levelled up' in this respect recently; traditionally contrast was a definite weakness of IPS panel monitors. You also have to consider the bigger picture, so to speak. IPS panel monitors, particularly those that are 24" plus, suffer from noticeable loss of dark detail in peripheral sections due to what is commonly dubbed 'IPS glow'. Their colour performance certainly makes up for this to a large degree and their subtle shade distinction is excellent but that isn't due to contrast in the technical sense.

It also isn't true that IPS panels tend to have superior uniformity. It may have been traditionally the case because you would be comparing products of a completely different price range intended for completely different markets. Now that the markets have merged somewhat and highly affordable IPS panel monitors are incoming more readily available the production methods and quality checks are much the same. Poor uniformity has a lot to do with stresses during and after manufacturing and the stresses here are no different for the two panel types. Colour uniformity is most certainly better on IPS panel monitors but luminance uniformity is not.
 
I would never even consider a TN panel ever again having used them in sol guises and having multiple at home and at work. They just don't stack up to the standard set by a high quality IPS display.

Sure, if you want 120Hz then there's no alternative but I don't see the point in them unless you're a hardcore gamer and only play games on the display.

3D is half a gimmick as well.

As a gamer I've found no problem with 60Hz at all.
 
The viewing angle limitations of TN panels certainly tend to become more apparent on larger screens. There are exceptions though. Samsung's recent 7 and 9 series 3D models seem to behave just like a larger 24" monitor with far less 'shifting' than you'd typically see on a 27" TN panel. In other areas (aside from pixel pitch) there aren't any inherent issues with 27" models which don't exist on 24" models. The fairest comparison you can do would be on models that come in both 24" and 27" variants such as many of Samsung's models, the ASUS VE278Q and VE278H and ViewSonic's VX series. The performance characteristics are generally very similar when it comes to contrast, uniformity, response time and general image quality (bar viewing angle dependant factors).
 
Haha no worries. It took me years of meddling about on my own to drill these kind of things into my own head. :p
 
PCM2, based on your Knowledge and experience with displays, which route would u suggest me to take?
1: Dell U2711
2: Dell U2410
3: Benq XL2420
4: Asus VG278H
5: whatever else u suggest that I don't know of...
Again Im not a pro gamer but I do play mix of most genre of fps, rts, action adventure, mmo and rpgs and would like to have both quality in picture and performance, also my price budget is around $700-$800 us dolors.
 
For gaming?

If it was me and just for gaming I ceretainly wouldn't go IPS.

I 120hz TN monitor like the BenQ 2420T or one of the Samsung 'D' series is what you want (consider the Asus aswell, but with my money it would be either the BenQ or Samsung)

Also remember you have the option to try out 3D, so if your Nvidia you might want to get the BenQ or Asus (like the BenQ myself) if your on AMD you might want to get one of the Samsungs.

The Samsung and Asus monitors have slightly better colours and glossy screens, the BenQ has allot lower input lag as its made specially for gaming but has an anti glare screen (that might actually be your preferance) so the colour pop less, but is still good for a TN panel once collaborated.
 
I purchased the U2412M today, should come saturday i'll let you know how the IPB performs for games.
 
U2412M installed yesterday and I've been doing performance testing and gaming since.

Gaming performance is more than excellent, I noticed no lag whatsoever and there was no visible ghosting in BF3 on foot or in vehicles or transitioning from dark to light parts of the map. Everything was just right. I saw no such problems on my Hazro either so this was welcome.

The 12M calibrates excellently as well and outshone my Hazro for calibrated results in shadow details pulling 0.3 min and 1.0 max for dE values and a black point of 0.13 whereas my Hazro HZ24Wi achieved a blackpoint of 0.24~ - This was at 6500k and 120cd/m2 - Shadow details stand out better on the 12M that’s for sure.

The 12M has a sharp picture as well, the default sharpness is 50 and side by side it’s noticeably sharper on text and edges than the Hazro but then again I think this is a trait of the non glossy panel as the Hazro has a glossy one. Not a gripe as such, it looks good and reminds me of the HP HZ24W I used to have but text is a lot better than the Dell 2405FPW I also owned, deeper, sharper and easier on the eyes.
 
mrk said:
U2412M installed yesterday and I've been doing performance testing and gaming since.

Gaming performance is more than excellent, I noticed no lag whatsoever and there was no visible ghosting in BF3 on foot or in vehicles or transitioning from dark to light parts of the map. Everything was just right. I saw no such problems on my Hazro either so this was welcome.

The 12M calibrates excellently as well and outshone my Hazro for calibrated results in shadow details pulling 0.3 min and 1.0 max for dE values and a black point of 0.13 whereas my Hazro HZ24Wi achieved a blackpoint of 0.24~ - This was at 6500k and 120cd/m2 - Shadow details stand out better on the 12M that’s for sure.

The 12M has a sharp picture as well, the default sharpness is 50 and side by side it’s noticeably sharper on text and edges than the Hazro but then again I think this is a trait of the non glossy panel as the Hazro has a glossy one. Not a gripe as such, it looks good and reminds me of the HP HZ24W I used to have but text is a lot better than the Dell 2405FPW I also owned, deeper, sharper and easier on the eyes.
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The thing is have you actually owned a good 120hz monitor?

I always here many people saying that their IPS/hi res monitors are excellent for gaming with no noticable gohsting or lag.

While this may be the case for you not noticing it, trust me from experience and owning a few IPS monitors myself (Including a Dell which I sold and the Hazro) you do notice a big difference while playing fast paced games on a good 120hz montior compared to IPS.
 
I understand that the 120Hz monitors are better for pure gaming and I have already stated why I haven;t bought one, because other than gaming they're next to useless for anything else that requires decent colour accurate results on screen. A TN panel just isn't good enough for that kind of multi-task workflow no matter what anyone says.

As a middle ground between quality vs performance the modern IPS panel is just right and it's not only users who own them that are saying this but reviews from professional outfits are backing this up too.
 
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