Soldato
My answer to the OPs question.
No
No
Should the government do more to help the steel industry or....
- Thread starter Danthus
- Start date
Caporegime
And they're universally ignored by a lot of developing nations...
are there any in the eu?
I can think of 3000 people straight away who would support government help.
There is a huge supply chain to the steel industry so I imagine job losses will extend beyond the steel works themselves.
Ok that's 7,000 people primary people out of work in South Wales and then the another 21000 people effected by contract companies closing and those that provide services to the workers.
The majority of the skilled craftsmen/ engineers will leave the country as there is no work for them and the rest will either be on the dole low paying service jobs.
The Welsh valleys will be further driven into the floor and Swansea will become Merthyr on sea.
Caporegime
No. However I'm referring to the fact that whilst a lot of western countries and thus companies are bound by green taxes, developing nations often forego them in the name of profit. It makes their products cheaper and thus more likely to sell.
Soldato
I think the first thing the government considers if the people affected are northerners and/or labour voters.
Government help to make the industry viable would result in redundancies as plants are improved and automated, and pay cuts to make the economics work. I doubt you would support that...
What do you know about how steel plants work Dolph?
Investment I can get behind, but part of that investment has to also include automation, which in turn means job losses. The challenge in getting a viable proposition is that it has to work with current or lower steel prices. That means tackling costs of production, which isn't just about energy costs and green taxes, but manpower costs which are also much higher in the UK.
Soldato
If it affects people outside the M25 I don't think the Torys really care.
What do you know about economics? If the plant can't be made to work within the cost constraints, then the industry is doomed and the government can't help it.
Soldato
No, for 2 reasons:
1. Every other industry in trouble will expect the same.
2. Massive over capacity in the world wide steel industry. This will just become a race to the bottom and many of the other players have deeper pockets than us.
Money needs to go into investment in retraining the people affected. Construction is suffering huge skills shortages and this country needs a lot more houses built, motorways, rail, decrepit sewerage systems replaced and the list goes on. These are also conveniently quite hard things to import, so even if a foreign firm wins the bids, the people on the ground will be overwhelmingly British.
1. Every other industry in trouble will expect the same.
2. Massive over capacity in the world wide steel industry. This will just become a race to the bottom and many of the other players have deeper pockets than us.
Money needs to go into investment in retraining the people affected. Construction is suffering huge skills shortages and this country needs a lot more houses built, motorways, rail, decrepit sewerage systems replaced and the list goes on. These are also conveniently quite hard things to import, so even if a foreign firm wins the bids, the people on the ground will be overwhelmingly British.
I think you under estimate the damage green taxes have caused to the UK steel industry.
There were huge capital costs incurred in the industry just get ready for green taxes, never mind the subsequent levies that were imposed.
I wouldn't support indefinitely propping the industry up. I think there is some merit in looking into the possibility of changing the tax and energy regime around the industry.
The Government doesn't need to "support" heavy industries, it just needs to stop going out of its way to actively cripple them!
So you don't support propping them up... but you would look at propping them up through tax breaks...
Propping them up in terms of cash handouts I meant sorry.
I don't underestimate them, but they are not the sole cause of our issues. Without also being willing to tackle production costs, it doesn't do enough to just get rid of the green taxes.
I think you are overestimating the ability to automate, a factory is easy as the temperature is regulated, the process is stable and the not usually very dirty.
The problem is most of the automated equipment cannot handle the areas, or the system is very automated as it is.
You have to remember that when the steel works opened it employed 40000 people in south wales alone so it has been reduced significantly down to 7000.
We made a Profit before tax last year of 250million, non of this stayed in the company or got re-invested. instead TATA used it to produce a new plant in india where they kill people every week.
But hey lets get everyone working in the service sector and just circulate the money we have around and around with out making any more