'Simulation' isn't the only problem in football though. Its the time wasting as well. With holding the ball, tapping it away (rather than booting it away resulting in a card) preventing freekicks / throwins being taken as quick as the opposing team would like etc. Its instilled across the board that the team has to win at any costs rather than relying on your own team's skill. I was watching the football show on repeat this morning and I forget which team scored but it was near the end and the keeper refused to give the ball back on the chance that the opposition could draw level after the restart. Its pathetic.
Simulation
- Thread starter Danthus
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Caporegime
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Because in taking avoiding action he lost the ball, had the player not forced avoiding action he would have had the ball in the penalty area. He could have run straight into him which the defender would have caused and got the penalty, why shouldn't it still be a penalty, not least because he did actually make contact with Cahill. Just because Cahill managed to minimise it doesn't change what the defender did which is block Cahill's run by impeding him without getting the ball.
Caporegime
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If the attacker is running in a line with the ball and a defender steps across that line without taking the ball then the attacking continues his run as normal and smashes into the player... that IS a penalty. This is given as blocking all over the pitch and is given every single weekend quite a few times and given as penalties. The ONLY difference here is Cahill attempted to avoid being smashed into, nothing else.
Watch the vine again, defender doesn't get the ball, you can put your arms up all you like, look where Cahill's right foot is and imagine where a natural run would have put his left foot.
Remember that what often happens in actual diving/cheating is a defender who ISN'T in the way the cheating attacker will move a leg out wider to force contact or will move a little towards the defender and jump in to them.
If Cahill jumped normally(without trying to twist and avoid him) he would have smashed right into him and got the penalty.
A Player cheating would undoubtedly of moved his leg towards the defender not try and avoid him and/or would have jumped in the direction of the defender, again not avoid him.
If Cahill continues running as normal he would have clattered into the defender who ran into Cahill's path, it would have been a 100% penalty. It shouldn't be a penalty and Cahill was "blatantly cheating" because he did the exact opposite of what happens when players actually cheat and he did everything to avoid as much contact as possible when cheaters do everything to cause as much contact as possible?
But you're quite happy when they touch each other in their happy place
That offence is stimulation. Looks like they both enjoyed it, Vinnie more than Gazza.
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You can't get rid of diving from the game its just not possible. Half of the challenges that are deemed diving are inconclusive and deciding if the contact is enough to bring someone down is impossible. Nudge a guy who is off balance and he will topple, shove a guy with his weight in the right place and he won't budge.
Referees give what they see and like everything else in the game they are affected by the reaction of the players, the crowd, the angle they see it from etc.
Then you have the issue that diving in europe is much worse than in the premier league. I have seen so many games in the CL and EL where one team that dives is rewarded every time and the team that doesn't is just bullied throughout the game. I've seen it make all the difference in the world when one team stays on their feet when getting pushed and knocked about while the other team goes to ground at every opportunity. One team can control the flow of the game and the other team is just demoralised and can't get anywhere.
That brings me onto the next issue. Why is diving a blight on the game but professional fouls are fine. "Hes taken one for the team there". "That was an important foul to break up the counter attack". Its amazing how you can see teams that have 6 or 7 players on a yellow but no one gets a red. They rotate the professional fouls to make sure they never lose a man and in the process they may have prevented 2 or 3 goals being scored.
Ashley Young does dive but the way he does it looks so ridiculous that he never usually gets a foul even when someone has wiped him out. Some players go down on minimal contact and others try and vault the challenge. One looks like a cheat and the other "felt contact".
We don't chastise players for going down easily in the box, only when there is no contact at all. Its not a case of was the contact enough to bring him down its pretty much always "was there a touch". If there was the slightest hint of a touch then well done, your diving was well executed.
Basically its a flavour of the day outrage that can't be stopped. You can't compete in europe if you don't go down easily at times. You can't be sure that someone has dived even when there isn't contact so I do love how its such a simple fix for everyone sitting at home watching their super slow mo replay from 5 angles who have never played any sport at a level higher than local school level 20 years earlier.
Referees give what they see and like everything else in the game they are affected by the reaction of the players, the crowd, the angle they see it from etc.
Then you have the issue that diving in europe is much worse than in the premier league. I have seen so many games in the CL and EL where one team that dives is rewarded every time and the team that doesn't is just bullied throughout the game. I've seen it make all the difference in the world when one team stays on their feet when getting pushed and knocked about while the other team goes to ground at every opportunity. One team can control the flow of the game and the other team is just demoralised and can't get anywhere.
That brings me onto the next issue. Why is diving a blight on the game but professional fouls are fine. "Hes taken one for the team there". "That was an important foul to break up the counter attack". Its amazing how you can see teams that have 6 or 7 players on a yellow but no one gets a red. They rotate the professional fouls to make sure they never lose a man and in the process they may have prevented 2 or 3 goals being scored.
Ashley Young does dive but the way he does it looks so ridiculous that he never usually gets a foul even when someone has wiped him out. Some players go down on minimal contact and others try and vault the challenge. One looks like a cheat and the other "felt contact".
We don't chastise players for going down easily in the box, only when there is no contact at all. Its not a case of was the contact enough to bring him down its pretty much always "was there a touch". If there was the slightest hint of a touch then well done, your diving was well executed.
Basically its a flavour of the day outrage that can't be stopped. You can't compete in europe if you don't go down easily at times. You can't be sure that someone has dived even when there isn't contact so I do love how its such a simple fix for everyone sitting at home watching their super slow mo replay from 5 angles who have never played any sport at a level higher than local school level 20 years earlier.
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The rules are black and white on that issue though. A professional foul is still a foul. The intention is not to play football and to prevent your opponent from doing the same. Therefore it is a booking. There is no issue over was he touched, did he go over too easily etc that is associated with diving. Depending on the area of the pitch though would determine whether or not it is a yellow or a red, perfect example is the last man situation where you take a player out to prevent a goal scoring chance.
A lot of the time the idea is to get away with it or make it appear accidental. Holding a shirt or falling over as if you are the one that was fouled when you were the offending party. Everything in football is shades of grey but everyone just loves to stick their oar in at the moment because its the hot topic.
As always, watching from the perfect angle at 1/10th of the speed of the game makes everything so much easier and yet we still debate so many decisions endlessly. If we punish every player who goes down that might have done so a little easily we will just end up with a much more boring game where defenders know they can get away with murder unless they hack the guy down. If you retrospectively punish divers I assume that you also have to retrospectively punish players that get away with fouls that would have been a card as well. Got away with a foul as the last defender? retrospective red.
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Soldato
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I don't think it's just the diving that's an issue though. This weekend has been particularly bad for diving, there have been a lot of examples of it in the prem, but previous weekends the focus has been on defenders holding and pulling in the box on set pieces. I think we need to introduce video evidence, retrospective punishment, or both to stop general cheating.
The only issue I can see is in situations where there is minimal contact but there was some contact. It might be difficult to determine if someone has dived or been knocked off balance, and it really doesn't take much to throw someone off balance when they are sprinting, particularly the really quick players. I remember in Bale's last season at Spurs there were loads of people accusing him of diving a lot, but with someone that fast it only takes a small push or slight trip to make them lose their balance.
The only issue I can see is in situations where there is minimal contact but there was some contact. It might be difficult to determine if someone has dived or been knocked off balance, and it really doesn't take much to throw someone off balance when they are sprinting, particularly the really quick players. I remember in Bale's last season at Spurs there were loads of people accusing him of diving a lot, but with someone that fast it only takes a small push or slight trip to make them lose their balance.
As I've said for years I would have a retrospective punishment for it but would err on the side of caution (no pun intended) in terms of only banning blatant divers rather than fringe cases that are generally considered diving. The problem is it is quite subjective so you'd have to have unanimous agreement from a panel and even then it wouldn't surprise me to see the odd player punished who has genuinely not attempted to cheat.
The most annoying thing is when you hear people trot out the "IT HAS TO BE A PENALTY OR BOOK HIM FOR DIVING!!!!11" line, completely overlooking the fact that not every time a player hits the deck it is a foul or a deliberate act. Football is a contact sport, you get block tackles etc, you don't see the same people demanding a yellow card or freekick everytime there is a 50-50 in the middle of the pitch. Like most people I have also fallen over on occasion due to a slip or whatever.
The most annoying thing is when you hear people trot out the "IT HAS TO BE A PENALTY OR BOOK HIM FOR DIVING!!!!11" line, completely overlooking the fact that not every time a player hits the deck it is a foul or a deliberate act. Football is a contact sport, you get block tackles etc, you don't see the same people demanding a yellow card or freekick everytime there is a 50-50 in the middle of the pitch. Like most people I have also fallen over on occasion due to a slip or whatever.
Associate
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http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/p...-be-named-shamed-under-nhls-anti-diving-push/
Interesting from the NHL, if it's obvious in video evidence then a fine and a one match ban if it happens again up the fine and the ban.
On another note it's harsh when a player has recently got away with a dive then get's genuinely punished when they are fowled, Ross Barkley for example.
I'd say it's time for 4th official reviewing challenges in time, surely technology has progressed to a standard where it has a minimal impact on the game.
Interesting from the NHL, if it's obvious in video evidence then a fine and a one match ban if it happens again up the fine and the ban.
On another note it's harsh when a player has recently got away with a dive then get's genuinely punished when they are fowled, Ross Barkley for example.
I'd say it's time for 4th official reviewing challenges in time, surely technology has progressed to a standard where it has a minimal impact on the game.