Sit ups- I'm doing it wrong =[

ash_scotland88 · 17 Mar 2013 at 21:39

So, yeah, I'm doing sit ups wrong and I can't seem to correct myself.

I'm getting the classic neck pain. It's around the front, almost where the glands and voice box sort of area, if this is the actually the classic area?

I'm also only managing half way but feeling the burn, but guessing after a while this will improve.

So, yeah, any tips?

I've read various guides but thought raising my questions might help me...

wedgie · 17 Mar 2013 at 21:40

Don't do sit ups.

BennyC · 17 Mar 2013 at 21:51

I would imagine if you are getting pain in the sternocleidomastoid then you are probably throwing your head forwards and back or just have weak muscles in the area.

There are more favorable exercises if you want to target your core or abdominal's. If I recall situps work the rec.fem (him flexor/quad insertion) quite heavily.

Try a crunch instead.

One · 17 Mar 2013 at 21:53

Try wedging your feet under something so they are kept on the floor for you.

ash_scotland88 · 17 Mar 2013 at 22:06

BennyC said:
I would imagine if you are getting pain in the sternocleidomastoid then you are probably throwing your head forwards and back or just have weak muscles in the area.

There are more favorable exercises if you want to target your core or abdominal's. If I recall situps work the rec.fem (him flexor/quad insertion) quite heavily.

Try a crunch instead.

I try and not move my head but sadly I'm either not noticing doing it, or like you said the weak muscles.
I'm looking to target the core and I think with my current pathetic attempts it's more of a crunch I'm doing

Even just now my neck is still feeling a tad worked out and a bit tight. :confused:

I'm not sure if it's worth saying but I suffer from hypermobility, so my ligaments and joints are weak and I get quite bad pains in my legs, hips and lower back because of it. In a slightly positive light I'm starting to master the squat position but I still feel like my knees could be further back.

ricky1981 · 17 Mar 2013 at 22:34

Do reverse crunches instead, problem solved

semi-pro waster · 18 Mar 2013 at 10:58

It might be worth thinking about what you're trying to do here. Your core will probably be better served by doing an exercise such as planks and that shouldn't produce as much stress on your neck either.

BennyC · 18 Mar 2013 at 12:31

semi-pro waster said:
It might be worth thinking about what you're trying to do here. Your core will probably be better served by doing an exercise such as planks and that shouldn't produce as much stress on your neck either.

Planks when done properly are the boss :cool:

[vibrate mode]

godinman · 18 Mar 2013 at 12:55

BennyC said:
Planks when done properly are the boss [vibrate mode]

Yeah, you need to be able to hold them for a few minutes to see any real benefit tho.

mrthingyx · 18 Mar 2013 at 13:00

godinman said:
Yeah, you need to be able to hold them for a few minutes to see any real benefit tho.

icecold · 18 Mar 2013 at 14:36

Brb being right back

mrthingyx · 18 Mar 2013 at 14:54

Don't do it, ice - it's not worth it! :eek:

semi-pro waster · 18 Mar 2013 at 14:56

godinman said:
Yeah, you need to be able to hold them for a few minutes to see any real benefit tho.

A few minutes? Either I doff my cap to you for your core being unbelievable or there's something not quite right with your form - my understanding is that if you're doing it correctly you'll be struggling to reach much more than 30-45 seconds but I'm happy to be corrected on that point.

It's an exercise that offers some opportunities to "cheat" e.g. not stretching out fully and being hinged at the hip rather than straight but if you do it right it's hard work and good for you.

icecold · 18 Mar 2013 at 15:35

mrthingyx said:
Don't do it, ice - it's not worth it!

semi-pro waster said:
A few minutes? Either I doff my cap to you for your core being unbelievable or there's something not quite right with your form - my understanding is that if you're doing it correctly you'll be struggling to reach much more than 30-45 seconds but I'm happy to be corrected on that point.

It's an exercise that offers some opportunities to "cheat" e.g. not stretching out fully and being hinged at the hip rather than straight but if you do it right it's hard work and good for you.

Correct. This was...erm...discussed in a thread recently.

semi-pro waster · 18 Mar 2013 at 15:40

icecold said:
Correct. This was...erm...discussed in a thread recently.

I've got to admit that I don't recall seeing that discussion but I'm glad to know that I'm not completely on the wrong track here. I did wonder if godinman was emphasising the time as a joke but it's not always easy to be sure with some of the advice sometimes.

Klytus · 18 Mar 2013 at 18:48

semi-pro waster said:
A few minutes? Either I doff my cap to you for your core being unbelievable or there's something not quite right with your form - my understanding is that if you're doing it correctly you'll be struggling to reach much more than 30-45 seconds but I'm happy to be corrected on that point.

As a test of core endurance Stuart McGill states that around 90 seconds of the side plank is the average for males (which is technically harder than the front plank as it takes the rectus abdominus out of the equation).

In terms of using it as an exercise to improve core ENDURANCE he concluded (from one piece of research that he did) that you should maximally contract the whole of your 'core' and only hold the plank for 7-8 second reps at a time. This goes against the conventional approach of lower effort/sustained contraction/numerous reps to increase the csa of type 1 muscle fibres. However the piece of research he concluded this from was massively flawed (e.g. the exercise was performed seated and not in the plank position, the oxygenation was measured in the erector spinae and NONE of the anterior core muscles - the ones which you are actually loading in the plank. He measured oxygenation rather than circulation which is much less accurate to name a few).

If you are wanting to build core STRENGTH (which McGill states is useless in terms of protecting your spine) then there are many better exercises (eg emg studies show hanging knee raises and bicycle crunches are shown to bring about a higher mvc of the obliques than other exercises in a couple of studies). The plank is isometric (static contraction) and for hypertrophy/strength and performance improvements eccentric (lowering or negative reps) training is at best more effective than concentric and at worst equal and both better than isometric.

If you are wanting to improve core ENDURANCE (which is what McGill believes is the key to protecting your spine) then you could try doing lower effort/sustained contraction/numerous reps (especially after a training session when the type 2 fibres will be fatigued) or you could try the bracing of 7-8 secs of planking doing high reps based on one very flawed piece of research.

If you are wanting to improve core [neuromuscular]CONTROL/PROPRIOCEPTION then the swiss balls and wobble boards are of use and some of McGills advanced bird dog exercises are worth looking at but if you are practising good form during your other exercises this will improve anyway.
Whichever you choose the key is FORM.

godinman · 18 Mar 2013 at 20:56

Oops, forgot about this post. I was just messing with you, sorry.

ash_scotland88 · 19 Mar 2013 at 22:24

Thanks guys,

So really been thinking about what I'm doing with my head and neck. I'm still not sure, I used to be able to do sit ups, maybe it's just out of practice but as said I can only manage crunch sort of positions.
I think part of it is I'm leading with my shoulders and head instead of trying to get my entire back to lift up....ach I'm really not sure.

Either way I felt and caught myself in the mirror, it's the muscles from under the jaw almost forming a V to the voice box area that is hurting and I'm using.

Also I appear to more or less doing squats correctly. Knees not over toes, leading down from hips and sticking the arse out a bit I'm still feeling it more over various leg muscles instead of glutes but I'm guessing this may be due to the issues with myself I mentioned earlier. Although sometimes I feel it under/towards the groin or maybe even the hiips, while doing them.

I most likely should get off to a trainer to help with all this...

Zefan · 19 Mar 2013 at 22:27

Bottom line is - don't so sit ups, they are really rubbish.

mrthingyx · 20 Mar 2013 at 06:06

ash_scotland88 said:
Thanks guys,

So really been thinking about what I'm doing with my head and neck. I'm still not sure, I used to be able to do sit ups, maybe it's just out of practice but as said I can only manage crunch sort of positions.
I think part of it is I'm leading with my shoulders and head instead of trying to get my entire back to lift up....ach I'm really not sure.

Either way I felt and caught myself in the mirror, it's the muscles from under the jaw almost forming a V to the voice box area that is hurting and I'm using.

Also I appear to more or less doing squats correctly. Knees not over toes, leading down from hips and sticking the arse out a bit I'm still feeling it more over various leg muscles instead of glutes but I'm guessing this may be due to the issues with myself I mentioned earlier. Although sometimes I feel it under/towards the groin or maybe even the hiips, while doing them.

I most likely should get off to a trainer to help with all this...

That sounds... Interesting.

Take a video and post it in the 'Form' thread. Actually, take two: one from the back and one from the side.