slight gearbox issue

TomTomTom · 10 Sep 2007 at 20:55

Hi,
This is regarding the gearbox in a few month old Mazda 6.

In the past couple of weeks I've started feeling a small but clearly noticable vibration in the stick shift when shifting from 1st to 2nd. It feels like it grinds for a split second just about half way along the travel between 1st and 2nd. There is no grinding noise though... I can just clearly feel it in the stick. It physically catches on something making it not smooth to shift.

Of course I'm pressing the clutch all the way down, yada yada.

Again it's only when shifting from 1st to 2nd. I scheduled a checkup at the dealer (it's in a week), but wondering what you guys think. I'm worried that it's something that could get worse. I hope it's not a big thing to fix and does not take longer than an afternoon.

Thanks for any insight.

BigglesPiP · 11 Sep 2007 at 04:30

Sounds like a worn synchro ring.

What's the oil level like?

TomTomTom · 11 Sep 2007 at 12:29

BigglesPiP said:
Sounds like a worn synchro ring.

Thanks for reply. From what I understand, that sounds like it would make sense.

Another earlier, maybe related symptom that I did not mention yet, is that ever since the car was new, I've had a very occasional snag with shifting into 1st when standing.... very rarely happens, but suddenly I can't get it into 1st. I found a solution though: shift to 2nd and then back to 1st and it clears the snag. Again, that's during standing, NOT during moving.

BigglesPiP said:
What's the oil level like?

I checked the engine oil after a warm up drive (and 10 minute cool down) and oddly enough it seems to be on the low side. But does that relate to the transmission in any way?

Thanks

Confused · 11 Sep 2007 at 12:31

TomTomTom said:
I checked the engine oil after a warm up drive and oddly enough it seems to be on the low side. But does that relate to the transmission in any way?

Not usually, no! Gearbox has it's own oil in 99.9% of cases.

BigglesPiP · 12 Sep 2007 at 00:39

TomTomTom said:
Thanks for reply. From what I understand, that sounds like it would make sense.

Another earlier, maybe related symptom that I did not mention yet, is that ever since the car was new, I've had a very occasional snag with shifting into 1st when standing.... very rarely happens, but suddenly I can't get it into 1st. I found a solution though: shift to 2nd and then back to 1st and it clears the snag. Again, that's during standing, NOT during moving.

I checked the engine oil after a warm up drive (and 10 minute cool down) and oddly enough it seems to be on the low side. But does that relate to the transmission in any way?

Thanks

LOL, gearbox oil is checked by shoving your finger into a hole on the gearbox, should be a nut about 20% down from the top of the box. Wear latex gloves, the oil will be carcinogenic by now. Drain it from a plug on the bottom, fill it via the top hole with the correct oil until it starts to overflow.

Sometimes a box will feel stiff on new oil, mine does.

The having to go for 2nd before 1st is normal in a synchro box, happens when stationary right? And with reverse sometimes?

GeX · 12 Sep 2007 at 00:41

BigglesPiP said:
Wear latex gloves, the oil will be carcinogenic by now. Fill it with the correct oil until it starts to overflow.

and smell like liquid death!

TomTomTom · 12 Sep 2007 at 13:46

Thanks for the info.

Don't think I'll go scurrying underneath the car to mess with the transmission oil myself.

How long does it take to replace a synchro ring if that's what it is?... assuming the mechanics can start on it right away. It sounded at least like they would fix it while I wait if possible. I haven't yet talked to a mechanic directly.

Dave M · 12 Sep 2007 at 14:08

Last time I had a car that struggled to get into 1st, having to go into 2nd first and so on - the release bearing died 2 weeks later stranding me on the M60, not fun.

TomTomTom · 12 Sep 2007 at 14:29

Telescopi said:
Last time I had a car that struggled to get into 1st, having to go into 2nd first and so on - the release bearing died 2 weeks later stranding me on the M60, not fun.

Yeah, something just doesn't feel right about the symptoms I've been noticing especially the grinding feeling from 1st to 2nd most recently.

I know gearboxes are not the simplest part of the car, but can a mechanic pretty much race through it and get something like this sorted quickly?

hominid · 12 Sep 2007 at 14:56

Gearboxes are quite specialised and I don't think a normal mechanic at the dealer would be able to crack one open to repair a dodgy syncro, maybe a master tech. It'll be more like a new gearbox, the problem being persuading them it's bad enough to replace.

TomTomTom · 12 Sep 2007 at 15:09

hominid said:
Gearboxes are quite specialised and I don't think a normal mechanic at the dealer would be able to crack one open to repair a dodgy syncro, maybe a master tech. It'll be more like a new gearbox, the problem being persuading them it's bad enough to replace.

Ok thanks. I've got schedule and time pressure, so it's good to have an idea. At least it sounds like something that takes a bit more time and care.

I guess if I can't convince them, then breaking down on the road should do it eventually. It's annoying because it really feels dodgy between 1st and 2nd. The not always getting into 1st was alright and was rare, but this recent slight grinding thing is a real nuisance. I find that I can avoid the grinding if I "shift it just so" finding just the right line from 1st to 2nd... still shouldn't be that way.

Thanks

EDIT: by the way, the "dealership" that I'm taking the car to, does actually have the full service facility attached to it, so I would think that if Mazda has master mechanics on location at all then this place would have them. Anyway, even knowing that it's a transmission issue involving "grinding" they seemed to indicate that it could possibly be taken care of that day. Hope so.

EDIT #2: Should I be worried when driving?? Service appointment is on Friday. It's a slight and brief "grinding" but NOT audible, but you can feel it in the stick and it seems to "catch on something" a bit. But like I mentioned, if I "shift it just so" I'm able to avoid it usually.

BigglesPiP · 12 Sep 2007 at 16:44

hominid said:
Gearboxes are quite specialised and I don't think a normal mechanic at the dealer would be able to crack one open to repair a dodgy syncro, maybe a master tech. It'll be more like a new gearbox, the problem being persuading them it's bad enough to replace.

An ATA Master tech will manage a gearbox rebuild without any hassle, not a quick job tho. If it is a synchro. ring.

ATA's website will tell you where there are Master Tech qualified mechanics near you.

TomTomTom · 12 Sep 2007 at 17:27

BigglesPiP said:
An ATA Master tech will manage a gearbox rebuild without any hassle, not a quick job tho. If it is a synchro. ring.

ATA's website will tell you where there are Master Tech qualified mechanics near you.

Would you estimate that one could do a synchro ring replace in say 4-5 hours at normal working pace? Just trying to predict whether it will be a possibility that it gets done that day. Might they need to lift the engine block to remove the transmission?

Thanks for any ideas... just wondering what the upcoming few days may turn out to be like... arg. Dumb thing had to come up just this week of all weeks :rolleyes:

BigglesPiP · 13 Sep 2007 at 01:21

TomTomTom said:
Would you estimate that one could do a synchro ring replace in say 4-5 hours at normal working pace? Just trying to predict whether it will be a possibility that it gets done that day. Might they need to lift the engine block to remove the transmission?

Thanks for any ideas... just wondering what the upcoming few days may turn out to be like... arg. Dumb thing had to come up just this week of all weeks

Depends on the car, and if our diagnosis is correct.

For example an ATA Master Tech can have (and has had) a gearbox out of my old Uno, change a release bearing, and replace the gearbox in about 45mins. So maybe 35 mins plus the work on the box.
But a Coupé would take a good 2 days, engine out job.

TomTomTom · 13 Sep 2007 at 10:21

BigglesPiP said:
Depends on the car, and if our diagnosis is correct.

For example an ATA Master Tech can have (and has had) a gearbox out of my old Uno, change a release bearing, and replace the gearbox in about 45mins. So maybe 35 mins plus the work on the box.
But a Coupé would take a good 2 days, engine out job.

Thanks that helps give me an idea. My car is a 2007 Mazda 6 Hatch.

Hopefully I get it back the next day at least... it goes in Friday around noon and they are open on Saturday, so perhaps they'll have time to get it done. I need wheels and preferably my own car over the next several days especially. Oh well... hopefully it's all good.

I've gotten better at avoiding the grinding... I let it coast longer than normal while I more slowly and carefully shift it to 2nd. So maybe I could get it in for a more prolonged repair early Monday morning instead without risking a break down on the road or making it worse until then.

Thanks