Small Claims Court Help.

sanaxe1 · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:15

Here is the Back story.

Me and my friend wanted to go Travelling for a month. Before going i emailed him my budget and the hotels i could afford to go to and I was happy to stay in. On Numerous occasions in person he said that he would pay to upgrade us from the budget hotels i had picked and that we would stay in 4* & 5* hotels for the duration of the trip as he had inherited about £250,000. I also have emails where he stated "I totally agree with that we will splash out, like i say if money gets tight I will pick up the extra i'm getting a massive inheritance " & " Also if there's any over spend accommodation wise i'll pick up the slack ". Now when we get to our destination we first stay in a budget hotel and he is not happy with the quality and wants to stay in more better accommodation. From then on we stay in 4* & 5* hotels which were around 4 or 5 times over my accommodation budget.

Now as he was expecting his inheritance to go into his bank account 2 weeks into the trip and until that happened he had around the same amount as money as me. so we paid 50/50 on all of the hotels. By the time he gets his money i have gone through my entire budget and i have 0 in my bank due to these extra costs. But instead of paying me back the extra that he said he would he instead offers to borrow me £1000. Now i can hardly decline this offer as im half way around the world with no money in my bank or means to get money and i still have 2 weeks were i need to buy food and accommodation. This £1000 is given to me in instalments on a daily basis from his bank card. Meaning i am still financially depended for the rest of the holiday for which we continued to stay in 4 and 5* hotels.

Now after we get back we fall out and i stop talking to him. He then keeps messaging me and my mum wanting his money he lent me back. To shut him up i pay him £100 and say that once i get a lump some of money i was expecting i will give him that and then pay him monthly. I never got the expected money and then haven't paid him any money since. I then received a small claims letter. Wanting the £900 + 8% interest.

So my question is am i buggered as i have made payment and agreed to pay the loan. Or can the court take into account that the only reason i needed the loan was because he went back on his agreement to pay the extra costs and left me with no other option but to take the loan. Had he said from the beginning he would only lend me the money i would have stayed in the hotels i had planned and budgeted for. I am willing to pay the costs of the hotels i planned to stay at which was £250 for the month. But not the extra as he agreed to pay for that.

Rroff · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:25

I'd probably say talk to Citizens Advice Bureau and make sure you keep copies of any relevant documentation is you still have it i.e. emails.

Raymond Lin · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:29

His words against yours on the agreement prior to the holiday.

Although oral contracts are valid, how would you prove it on your end?

He can prove he had loan you £1,000 and the 8% is standard court interest rate.

The lesson here is not to trust people when it comes to money and pay your own way, and I would forward a repayment plan to repay is loan, unless you have prove that he will pay for your travels? There is a difference between picking up odds and ends and giving you a lump sum of £1,000, especially as you put it, you took the £1,000 as a loan, took it on the full knowledge and good faith that it is a loan.

Beerbaron · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:34

If he gave you cash then there is no proof you even took the money.

LOAM · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:43

Beerbaron said:
If he gave you cash then there is no proof you even took the money.

Surely there's admission of "contract" though as OP has agreed to pay it back and indeed made one installment ?

mattyfez · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:44

Can he prove it was a loan, can you prove it was a gift?

Sounds like one persons word against the other, that supported by the 'lets splash out, don't worry, I'll pay, I'm rich' emails, you could argue it was a gift in the absence of any proof it was a loan.

I think id file my defence accordingly and see him in court. If its as you say, he has been pretty sneaky...

mattyfez · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:46

Against you though is that you've paid a £100 back, which could imply it was indeed a loan.

sanaxe1 · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:48

I have screenshots saying he would pay for any overspend on accommodation. And also emails of my entire budget broke down including accommodation costs where i tell him how much i have total and how much can go on accommodation .

However the loan was then agreed to after that was said for which there is proof, but could i argue that due to the circumstances i was under Duress ( Right word?) As due to going back on his word i had to accept the loan or be forced to live 2 weeks in a country on the other side of the world with no food or shelter or possible way to get home.

Beerbaron · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:48

LOAM said:
Surely there's admission of "contract" though as OP has agreed to pay it back and indeed made one installment ?

£100 could have been the full money loaned.

Unless he has written evidence of the amount, the interest and that it was a loan i cant see how he can win. I hope he doesn't see this thread

manic111 · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:50

mattyfez said:
Against you though is that you've paid a £100 back, which could imply it was indeed a loan.

I thought that the only evidence which could be taken into account was that at the time the loan/gift was made?

Raymond Lin · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:50

sanaxe1 said:
I have screenshots saying he would pay for any overspend on accommodation. And also emails of my entire budget broke down including accommodation costs.

However the loan was then agreed to after that was said for which there is proof, but could i argue that due to the circumstances i was under Duress ( Right word?) As due to going back on his word i had to accept the loan or be forced to live 2 weeks in a country on the other side of the world with no food or shelter or possible way to get home.

Duress?

There is always the option of getting a plane back home?

How did you over spend your budget on accommodation anyway?

Was not all the hotel pre-booked and paid for prior to departure? If not, did you not get a price for all the places you were going to stay at prior to departure thus knowing your own budget, you should know what kind of places you can stay at and if you can last the duration of the trip.

Or did you simply leave the country with no booking and no idea how much each hotel will cost and let your friend dictate on hotel choices and you pay half, all the while, clinging on this prior agreement that he would pick up where you are left off.

To me, on a friends terms, picking up where you are short would be if you only got £180 for a £200 bill, I would cover the £20 difference.

Not paying your accommodation for half the trip.

sanaxe1 · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:53

Raymond Lin said:
Duress?

There is always the option of getting a plane back home?

With what money? My parents do not have the money on hand to pay for a new flight home which would have been around £600+ and i still had 2 weeks with no money to wait for my return flight and i was around 450miles away from the airport with no money to get there.

deuse · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:53

mattyfez said:
Against you though is that you've paid a £100 back, which could imply it was indeed a loan.

I think you've been watching to much judge Judy

Raymond Lin · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:56

sanaxe1 said:
With what money? My parents do not have the money on hand to pay for a new flight home which would have been around £600+ and i still had 2 weeks with no money to wait for my return flight and i was around 450miles away from the airport with no money to get there.

Did you not have a back up plan?

Like credit card ?

You REALLY did go on this trip on the full knowledge that your friend will pay, in some way, towards the holiday didn't you?

manic111 · 27 Jun 2013 at 16:57

Raymond Lin said:
Did you not have a back up plan?

Like credit card ?

You REALLY did go on this trip on the full knowledge that your friend will pay, in some way, towards the holiday didn't you?

Is that that abnormal? If a good friend says "I'll pay for this", do you expect him to subsequently back out of the deal?

I'm going on holiday with my parents in a few months. Should I ensure that I have other lines of credit in case we have a falling out?

sanaxe1 · 27 Jun 2013 at 17:00

Raymond Lin said:
You REALLY did go on this trip on the full knowledge that your friend will pay, in some way, towards the holiday didn't you?

Yes i did. On multiple times he said that he would upgrade the hotels and that he would pay any extra from what i was going to pay as he wanted to stay in nicer hotels. So for example i had the budget to stay in £8/night hotel ( still nice places) but we ended up staying in £40 night 5* hotels. Where under his agreement he would pay the extra £32 as it was him who wanted to stay in that hotel and he had just gotten a load of money and he wanted to splash out. If he would have given that money back as agreed i would have been ok.

Raymond Lin · 27 Jun 2013 at 17:01

manic111 said:
Is that that abnormal? If a good friend says "I'll pay for this", do you expect him to subsequently back out of the deal?

I'm going on holiday with my parents in a few months. Should I ensure that I have other lines of credit in case we have a falling out?

Not falling out, what if there is an accident ?

Always have a plan B to get home.

When I had my wallet nicked in Rome. I had my plane ticket to get home and £100 in cash in my suitcase, it was there in case that happened, which was enough to get my train ticket home from the air port.

mattyfez · 27 Jun 2013 at 17:01

manic111 said:
I thought that the only evidence which could be taken into account was that at the time the loan/gift was made?

Perhaps, that would need an expert opinion I think.

However:
"However the loan was then agreed to after that was said for which there is proof, but could I argue that due to the circumstances I was under Duress"

If there is proof of a loan and again proof of paying back an instalment, bit tricky that..

Ok he convinced you to take the loan, but then you had the choice of going home or staying in a hostel too.. I think you have 3 choices,

1)agree to pay it off in small instalments, in return for dropping the case.
2)get some real legal advice which you will have to swallow the cost of and make your decision based on that.
3)chance it in court -there's certainty some good mitigation in your favour but the judge may take the view that a loan is a loan.. I'm really not qualified to guess how it would swing.

Maybe you can get some more specific advice on the consumer action group forums. Try CAB also, but I'm not sure how specialised they would be to offer a reliable opinion.

mattyfez · 27 Jun 2013 at 17:06

How come you accepted a loan after he had told you he would meet any extra expense?

manic111 · 27 Jun 2013 at 17:07

Raymond Lin said:
Not falling out, what if there is an accident ?

Always have a plan B to get home.

When I had my wallet nicked in Rome. I had my plane ticket to get home and £100 in cash in my suitcase, it was there in case that happened, which was enough to get my train ticket home from the air port.

If there's an accident, I'll have travel insurance to get me home, so that situation is different to this one where, I assume, insurance would not have paid.

I agree with having a small backup in terms of keeping a bit of money back in case your wallet gets pinched, but there's a bit of a difference between that and holding onto hundreds of pounds for a flight home. If people are expected to do that, it could comfortably add 50% onto the price of a lot of holidays (even if you don't use the extra money, it would still need to be available).