Smart plugs without 3rd party app

[whitecrook]

Hello all. Now I'm normally OK with gadgets and stuff but these smart plugs are confusing me.

1. I have Apple iphone,ipad,laptop. I have an echo (original) and a v2. dot (and an orig firetv)

Scenario:

I wanted to get some smart plugs to be able to control some lights/lamps, maybe have my iron plugged in so I can be sure I've switched it off when I'm halfway to work maybe some other wee things here and there.

Problem:
But I've tried 3 types now and they all seem to need some 3rd party app installing, and what feels like a sacrifice of my first born before I can then begin to connect it to Alexa. In fact One set I tried after I downloaded the app, the first thing it asked me for was my phone number. WTF? Why do I need to give some chinese company my phone number to make a remote plug work ? I immedietly threw in the bin.


But I'm back for more punishment..

Request:
My question is - is there a product I can buy that will work directly with Alexa or Homekit (or both!!) to allow me to control a lamp without having to install 3rd party software and 'sign up' to god knows what. I.e. can i not just buy a plug and have alexa detect it on the network and then just work ? I will struggle very very hard to believe that this isn't possible, and if this is possible what are the magic keywords I need to search for when looking for devices to ensure I don't have to deal with all this bs.

Ps. Is this what a hub thing does ? I read a few guides and it seems to be that you still have to deal with 3rd party apps ?

Many thanks all

 

[bremen1874]

Amazon has their own smart plugs. I'd assume they'd work fairly seamlessly.

 

[Caged]

They will all most likely require their own proprietary app with an account to set up, and then you link that to Alexa / whatever.

If you already have an Echo then Amazon's own plugs will work without having to make a new account with another provider.

Edit: Here's a category of things that will work directly with a Zigbee-enabled Echo (Echo Plus) without an app - https://www.amazon.co.uk/b?ie=UTF8&node=14178233031

 

[Bug One]

I've used the TP Link Kasa ones and they've been excellent. I also tried my luck with a cheap SonOff one. Was a waste of money - the app and supporting infrastructure is junk.

But once you've set it up with their own proprietary app, you then add the skill to Alexa and control them centrally from there.

 

[Bug One]

Oh - if you want to do it without signing up to an online service, you need a Echo plus with the build in home hub support. This uses a local network to control the smart plugs / bulbs (like the philips hue stuff) instead of an online server you connect to.

 

[Semple]

Not really sure why you were having such a problem with them. The 3rd party app is merely to set it up (connect to WiFi) and then you can link it to your Alexa account. You don't need to use the 3rd party app again.

 

[BigT]

Your best option to work with your existing echoes but no other app is Amazon's own units. I have these and TP-Link (requires Kasa 3rd party app) and the Amazon smart plugs are really easy to use. Plug them in and they just automagically appear in your Alexa app you must already have for the echoes. No further software required.

 

[Squid Vicious]

I've used the TP Link Kasa ones and they've been excellent. I also tried my luck with a cheap SonOff one. Was a waste of money - the app and supporting infrastructure is junk.

But once you've set it up with their own proprietary app, you then add the skill to Alexa and control them centrally from there.

Also recently setup some the TP-Link Kasa ones after some research - I know it doesn't meet @whitecrook requirement of no app but they are very easy to setup and use with Alexa.

If you were absolutely determined to remove 3rd party app and account from the mix you could probably also use a z-wave enabled plug - but would need to build a hub using something like openhab installed on a device (raspberry pi or windows/linux/macos with a z-wave module attached). It'd be a fair amount of work to get setup but works with both Alexa and Homekit

You could also buy a hub like smartthings or wink 2 but I suspect they'd require an account.

 

[Squid Vicious]

Amazon has their own smart plugs. I'd assume they'd work fairly seamlessly.

I think this is probably the simplest solution

 

[whitecrook]

thanks all I saw the amazon plugs so will go for them. Seems exactly what I want. I did actually have some tplink plugs that needed kasa but still a pointless extra bit of sign up and details needed. Gave them to someone else. It's not really needed is it.

 

[whitecrook]

Fantastic - so I got 2 amazon plugs £25 each so not as cheap, but to be honest, the fact I just plug it in and it literally gives me an immediate notification on my phone 'new plug detected set it up?' without having to do ANY pfafff is well, very much worth it to me.

But they don't seem todo bulbs. So is phillips hue the best smart bulb solution ? I don't understand this hub thing. What is a hub ,why do i need it and what does it do for me ?

 

[BigT]

A bulb that doesn't need a hub typically has wifi built in and then requires an app on a mobile device to turn on and off. This app and the bulb talk to a manufacturer's server on the internet via your router and things like Alexa or Google will talk to the same manufacturer server to allow you to control things by voice if you want.

A lighting solution that uses a hub uses a protocol other than wifi typically to communicate data to the bulbs. Something like zigbee or zwave. This protocol normally needs less power than wifi so is suitable in more home automation situations. While not applicable to bulbs, you can deduce that it enables battery operated things like sensors more easily. Wireless alarm systems are good example - PIRs are much easier to install without wires. Also needing less power means smaller size and less heat often too.

These protocols also allow devices to pass signals along to one another rather than all having to be within wireless reach of your router like with a wifi bulb. One of the functions of the hub then becomes to translate that protocol into something that your normal network, the internet and Alexa can communicate with (IP)

 

[whitecrook]

OK - that actually makes some sense. Reduced need to go outside network to external server and more 'geared up' for the type of task than standard wifi type devices ?

Is this in any way like the Sonos 'mesh network' thing that they do? It's like a little private network they communicate on to each other. Sonos 1s have it built in, but you used to have to buy a sonos bridge at one time ?Somethign like that ? ?

 

[BigT]

I'm now reaching the limit of my knowledge but yes I think conceptually zigbee and zwave devices are similar to mesh networks in that they talk to each other as a mesh of nodes rather than a traditional network being more like a star with traffic being managed and routed between things via routers and switches.

Also I'm not sure this is entirely correct, but often with WiFi devices if there's no internet you're pretty much screwed for controlling your devices whereas with devices using a hub you'll still get some control via the app that they also come with (Alexa control aside of course which always needs the internet)

 

[whitecrook]

hmmm so e.g.if i have no internet I can't use my smart plugs ? is this for all smart plugs (not zwave / 'hubbed' things) Do amazon smart plugs still need the internet ? I could test i guess id need to remove the coax cable from my virgin router to simulate loss of internet - Wondered if you might know.

if so this is beginning to make sense . Why is it so hard to find out this info?

 

[BigT]

Zigbee and zwave devices should still work via their app with no internet. WiFi devices I think it varies. In all cases control away from home obviously wouldn’t work and unless you have a new echo plus then Alexa won’t work (and that’s limitedto certain bulbs/switches) - don’t know about other voice assistants.

Guess vendors don’t mention it because they assume the internet is ubiquitous, especially if you’re connecting their devices to a WiFi network which for most people is provided by their router connected to the internet.

 

[whitecrook]

OK thanks. It's actually really difficult to find out actually what these things do, how they work, what the differences are, whats the pros and cons etc? It's all marketing BS instead of actual meaningful information that can be used to base an informed decision on. Oh wait I think I just answered my own question.

 

[Jesse Kelly]

I'm two or three years down the line with a couple of devices and can't even remember the apps that came with them. It's a royal pain. They don't last for ever and sometimes need a reset, and without app or forgetting which app and account info, etc it's just a faff that I'd like to avoid in the future. So I totally understand the OPs issue. Searching the problem is how I ended up on this forum

 

[Uhtred]

I buy the sonoff S20. The app is pure junk but you don't have to use it because it's based on the esp 8266 chip. This is a very popular chip which can be flashed open source firmware such as esphome or tasmota. For me it's perfect because it works natively with home assistant

 

[whitecrook]

old thread revival.... Yeah . I used the amazon plugs for about a month then I got a Hue system which replaced the need for smart plugs on my lamps, and doesn't need internet to work, and they work as normal bulbs.... But after all this time Still have hue bulbs in my house but i just use them as normal bulbs once in a while i fire the app up so I don't have to get up to switch the hall light out. Also sonos, it's great but I'm really thinking now just get a radio, i don't need sonos on all the time, sucking up elect, and then i have to fiddle with a stupid phone app to hear the radio, just get a normal radio and be done with it....

I've just about given up on all the smart stuff tbh. I had an alexa but i can't remember half the things it supposed to do for me. it's been unplugged for months now. cynic/ These are all just ways to get you to buy more stuff. No one needs it. Go outside. Unplug it all. live your life. Smart home/smart stuff SUCKS. break free. you can do it.


edit ps. as for my iron, i got a energy timer thing. it;s like a smart plug but it has a green button that activates for 15 mins. So i press it and i know that the iron will be off after 15 mins. So no smarts, no networks, no logins, not wifi, just. a. simple. switch.