Smiths Vs. Bench
- Thread starter oHUTCHYo
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Same here for squatting in the smith machine, my weight doesn't seem to be that high or improve much on it though (currently ~80kg squat for 6 reps compared to 70kg smith bench for 6 reps). I tend to use dumbbells for pressing though.
Very Interesting discussion.
I started out using the smith for squats and bench press but then took the plunge and went to free weights. I am lucky and my gym has a squat rack although it was rarely in use for squats. The space was being used by PT's for other exercises as there is a bit of clear floor space there.
I was squatting 80Kg (3*8) in the Smith a month ago and had to drop to 60Kg with free weights in order to get the stabilisers working. I went to 80Kg but am back down to 70 at the moment due to the Achillies heal issues and a week off. Will probabily step back up to 80Kg tonight (including bar weight).
The idea of using the Smith to push past a period of no gain seems a very good one.
Some people also use the Smith for chinups.
The bench press bench I use has hooks maybe 6" above chest level which I have used a couple of times so although I exercise alone, I can still use the free weights for most things with reasonible safety.
A lot of people at my gym use the Smith. I even saw three young guys bench pressing on it with the spare two acting as extra spotters and weight changes as they rotated. They were working on average around 30Kg. Whilst being a bit of overkill in my mind it was to the saftey to weight that bothered me. I was in the squat rack next to them (which is too close to the Smith IMHO) and had to keep watching out for them moving back and forth changing weights etc when I am squatting a heavy (for me) load. If they clipped me, everything could have gone pear shaped pretty fast. I mentioned this to the gym staff and they may (possibly) move them a bit further apart.
For G4orce, I would suggest moving from the smith and just work on the bench with free weights for the time being to build the stabilisers. Dont worry about dropping weight. I started out bench pressing a clean 20Kg bar 7 weeks ago and am now pushing 60Kg total. Sure working with the clean bar was embarassing if I let pride get to me but it soon went up. Now I am above average in the gym out of the people I have seen there. Only a few others use 20Kg discs on the bar. Ok, my point. Pushing 100Kg in the Smith probabily felt great and dropping to 40Kg feels dissapointing. I would suggest going with 40Kg on 3*8 sets until you get back up to a weight you are happier with and then reassessing what you want for the training. With good diet the 3*8 should see you getting to your Smith weights fairly quick and then you could change to 5*5 for strength or continue with the 3*8 for size. Just remember to up the weight on completion of 3*8 with good form and it will build from there. Also, remember..... the people who know their stuff know that 100Kg on a Smith does not equate to 100Kg on a free weight bench. You also know this too. Work hard and get your self up to 100Kg free weights and that will be impressive.
Just my thoughts of course
.
Regards
RB
I started out using the smith for squats and bench press but then took the plunge and went to free weights. I am lucky and my gym has a squat rack although it was rarely in use for squats. The space was being used by PT's for other exercises as there is a bit of clear floor space there.
I was squatting 80Kg (3*8) in the Smith a month ago and had to drop to 60Kg with free weights in order to get the stabilisers working. I went to 80Kg but am back down to 70 at the moment due to the Achillies heal issues and a week off. Will probabily step back up to 80Kg tonight (including bar weight).
The idea of using the Smith to push past a period of no gain seems a very good one.
Some people also use the Smith for chinups.
The bench press bench I use has hooks maybe 6" above chest level which I have used a couple of times so although I exercise alone, I can still use the free weights for most things with reasonible safety.
A lot of people at my gym use the Smith. I even saw three young guys bench pressing on it with the spare two acting as extra spotters and weight changes as they rotated. They were working on average around 30Kg. Whilst being a bit of overkill in my mind it was to the saftey to weight that bothered me. I was in the squat rack next to them (which is too close to the Smith IMHO) and had to keep watching out for them moving back and forth changing weights etc when I am squatting a heavy (for me) load. If they clipped me, everything could have gone pear shaped pretty fast. I mentioned this to the gym staff and they may (possibly) move them a bit further apart.
For G4orce, I would suggest moving from the smith and just work on the bench with free weights for the time being to build the stabilisers. Dont worry about dropping weight. I started out bench pressing a clean 20Kg bar 7 weeks ago and am now pushing 60Kg total. Sure working with the clean bar was embarassing if I let pride get to me but it soon went up. Now I am above average in the gym out of the people I have seen there. Only a few others use 20Kg discs on the bar. Ok, my point. Pushing 100Kg in the Smith probabily felt great and dropping to 40Kg feels dissapointing. I would suggest going with 40Kg on 3*8 sets until you get back up to a weight you are happier with and then reassessing what you want for the training. With good diet the 3*8 should see you getting to your Smith weights fairly quick and then you could change to 5*5 for strength or continue with the 3*8 for size. Just remember to up the weight on completion of 3*8 with good form and it will build from there. Also, remember..... the people who know their stuff know that 100Kg on a Smith does not equate to 100Kg on a free weight bench. You also know this too. Work hard and get your self up to 100Kg free weights and that will be impressive.
Just my thoughts of course
.Regards
RB
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Caporegime
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Everyone using the Smith to squat - I had a thread discussing this recently and everyone said it was preferably to clean the bar and do front squats. If you can't clean what you can squat then practice cleaning and / or do more reps.
There's no way I could clean 150kg tbh :/
Man of Honour
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Can you front squat 150kg?!
Man of Honour
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If you have limited equipment I find that this is the best bet. Nice slow negs, front squats rock. Heel elevated front squats are even more fun!
Man of Honour
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If you have limited equipment I find that this is the best bet. Nice slow negs, front squats rock. Heel elevated front squats are even more fun!
I believe fun is not quite the correct phrase here unless you mean "fun for everyone else in the gym".
Based on my limited experience I'd say Smith machines do have a place but generally speaking you're normally better off with free weights as your body can follow a more natural path and your stabilising muscles are much more involved.
Can't front squat at all tbh. Bar rests against my adams apple, which hurts. Can back squat 150kg fine though.
Man of Honour
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You're holding the bar incorrectly then.
Front squats IME and IMO are much more beneficial and better than back squats, however I do back squats as well - but my form is flawless.
However going back to the point of limited equipment, powercleaning and doing front squats from that will be challenging for most people.
You're holding the bar incorrectly then.
Front squats IME and IMO are much more beneficial and better than back squats, however I do back squats as well - but my form is flawless.
However going back to the point of limited equipment, powercleaning and doing front squats from that will be challenging for most people.
Haha, so modest as well. I love front squats and do them regularly, but always with cross over grip, otherwise I don't think I would be able to do many reps before my wrists broke clean off.
Anyway- can't you put the bar high on the smith, get in a comfortable cross grip position and either roll the bar slightly yourself or get someone to help you roll it over?
In all honesty, I can't do it. I've tried many times, asked PT's to assist me, and it just doesn't work. I have a bent vertebrae just below my neck (meaning my neck is angled forward,) and add to it my shoulders/arms/elbows just aren't flexible enough or my forearms are too long, I just can't get the bar onto my shoulders without it pressing quite hard against my neck/apple.You're holding the bar incorrectly then.
Front squats IME and IMO are much more beneficial and better than back squats, however I do back squats as well - but my form is flawless.
However going back to the point of limited equipment, powercleaning and doing front squats from that will be challenging for most people.
Great tips thanks guys. Ive just about eliminated most of the fixed weights from my routine now and am actually enjoying my sessions more now, just out of novelty value.
Sunday was my tricep and chest day. Along with taking everyones advice and giving the Smiths a wide berth, I decided to avoid the machine which acts like a dumbell press, like this:
I tend to do 70KG 3x8 on the fixed machine, I tried to to the free weight equivalent sat on a bench. I tried 25KG dumbels thinking it was a light start to get used to the movement. Get used to the movement indeed. I pushed upwards and at the same time my arms bent backwards, I had to jump up off the bench at the risk of my arms bending in a way for which they are not designed. Stabilisers strike again. In fairness though, on my next attempts things went OK once I had the movement correct, definitely feeling the burn though.
Sunday was my tricep and chest day. Along with taking everyones advice and giving the Smiths a wide berth, I decided to avoid the machine which acts like a dumbell press, like this:
I tend to do 70KG 3x8 on the fixed machine, I tried to to the free weight equivalent sat on a bench. I tried 25KG dumbels thinking it was a light start to get used to the movement. Get used to the movement indeed. I pushed upwards and at the same time my arms bent backwards, I had to jump up off the bench at the risk of my arms bending in a way for which they are not designed. Stabilisers strike again. In fairness though, on my next attempts things went OK once I had the movement correct, definitely feeling the burn though.
Man of Honour
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Well my form is 95% then how about that?
If I'm going to be squatting with 180 on my back I bloody well would want my form to be as close to perfect as I can get! It's not worth making any sort of mistakes with that sort of weight on my back. I use cross armed grip for front squats since I have a rack, but in gyms where there haven't been I've powercleaned them and not had any issues, but I don't have a flexibility issue in my wrists but that's only with around 100kg, not sure what very heavy front squats would be like. I don't think I could do cross armed grip with very heavy weights, certainly not without some cylinder insulation.
That's fair enough mate
Shame to hear that, and it's annoying that you haven't got the flexibility in your wrists to hold it in a clean position as I reckon you'd do pretty well with them. Keep up the good work with the back squats - you can still got ATG with them, it's just less natural than doing it with fronts.
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G4ORCE, that's precisely why it's so so important to have a spotter or learn to use free weights as your primary exercise. Smiths and machines are great as a subsidiary exercise, but you really need to focus on the free weights to build up your strength and stability. Furthermore freeweights hit your core more too.
If you are front squating with arms crossed you will might feel pressure on your throat. A lot people do the opposite and have problems with the bar rolling forward because they don't come up straight from the bottom. Maybe drop the weight keep the squats under constant tension and mix up with sissy squats?
I've had more success with cross-armed front squats than with clean front squats, would rather do cleans though, the way the bar sits on shoulders with cross-armed is not comfortable at all.
Mind, having said all this I have been running around like a blue bottomed fly trying to sort out a flat move (and had a week in Sweden) and not had time to go to the gym in 2 weeks!
Mind, having said all this I have been running around like a blue bottomed fly trying to sort out a flat move (and had a week in Sweden) and not had time to go to the gym in 2 weeks!
Man of Honour
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Sissy squats have the most ironic name, as they hurt like ****
Quick hijack.
Currently bar bell benching at home doing 5x5 and adding a kg each week. Trying to build size as much as possible, trust me I need to find out if I actually have muslces ? Good or try something else ?
Cheers