'Snooper's Charter' law being rushed through.

What about the other bit? (Which I may have added before you'd started to reply)

e: Also, could you actually answer the question please?

To answer the question, I'm relatively relaxed about it. In the grand scheme of things it's not as serious as the concept of "revenge porn" and ultimately if you're dumb enough to send nudey pictures of yourself on the internet you should expect strangers to see them. Presumably it's equally bad when Russian/Chinese spies view such images?

Both this and the spying on former love interests shouldn't happen though - safeguards can and should be put in place to prevent such abuses.
 
The whole NSA and GCHQ thing is a load of balls.

I'm sure they have the capability to monitor who they want, when they want, but storing ALL records of everything just isn't physically possible.

It's estimated that to store all the US's landline records it would be over 10 exabytes per year. Now add internet records, mobile phone records and the rest and we are looking at over 100 exabytes+ per year.

10 Exabytes alone per year would cost $10+billion a year just for the storage, forget power/maintenance costs and the costs to pay people to run it. Then the cost to pay for the processing power to process it/analyse it and some human agents to do the same. Now consider the NSA's budget per year, it just isn't possible. If you look at the NSA's data centre its power consumption comes no where near what they would need if they were storing at this level.

Think about it, if you were in government you would want all the Plebs to believe you were constantly monitoring all their activity would you? Heard of scaremongering. I'm pretty sure Snowdon is on the pay roll of the government to leak these 'leaks.

Take your tin foil hats of guys.

Well that's another way of looking at it :)

Well were an awful lot smaller than the USA for starters (5x smaller) so if that 10 exabytes were based on being 5x larger we'd only have to store 2. 2billion a year doesn't seem so unrealistic now :D. Obviously it would grow year by year but I'm unsure of GCHQs budget I imagine its more than enough.

I do like the idea of leaking false info to make it sound like they're doing more than they are but the numbers aren't that unrealistic. Would the Russians be even willing to help should that be the case?
 
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Well that's another way of looking at it :)

Well were an awful lot smaller than the USA for starters (5x smaller) so if that 10 exabytes were based on being 5x larger we'd only have to store 2. 2billion a year doesn't seem so unrealistic now :D. Obviously it would grow year by year but I'm unsure of GCHQs budget I imagine its more than enough.

I do like the idea of leaking false info to make it sound like they're doing more than they are but the numbers aren't that unrealistic.

That 2 billion would be for phone records and the storage of that only. X10 for mobile phone records, Internet records now that's 20 billion. Now add the coSt for power and the people required and to cool etc, then the cost to store foreign data and it's over 50 billion
 
That 2 billion would be for phone records and the storage of that only. X10 for mobile phone records, Internet records now that's 20 billion. Now add the coSt for power and the people required and to cool etc, then the cost to store foreign data and it's over 50 billion

A drop in the ocean compared to our deficit. There's also a few reports of foreign agencies subsidising the bills(not massively). I'm not saying you're wrong just that it's not implausible.
 
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A drop in the ocean compared to our deficit. There's also a few reports of foreign agencies subsidising the bills(not massively). I'm not saying you're wrong just that it's not implausible.

If their subsidising our bill they then gotta do it themselves aswell.

Btw, as I said before I'm sure if they wanted all the electronic data on Joe Bloggs or the President of Country A I'm sure they could ( and probably have) but GCHQs budget isn't anywhere near 50 billion.
 
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To answer the question, I'm relatively relaxed about it. In the grand scheme of things it's not as serious as the concept of "revenge porn" and ultimately if you're dumb enough to send nudey pictures of yourself on the internet you should expect strangers to see them. Presumably it's equally bad when Russian/Chinese spies view such images?
"The Internet"? that's a bit of a simplification and implies they were on the public domain. These are from private messages from all kinds of medium including MMS, instant messaging and email. Never mind facebook or any kind of forum.

Both this and the spying on former love interests shouldn't happen though - safeguards can and should be put in place to prevent such abuses.
Glad we agree :) However the evidence is stacked firmly against that such safeguards will be in place.
 
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The whole NSA and GCHQ thing is a load of balls.

I'm sure they have the capability to monitor who they want, when they want, but storing ALL records of everything just isn't physically possible.

It's estimated that to store all the US's landline records it would be over 10 exabytes per year. Now add internet records, mobile phone records and the rest and we are looking at over 100 exabytes+ per year.

10 Exabytes alone per year would cost $10+billion a year just for the storage, forget power/maintenance costs and the costs to pay people to run it. Then the cost to pay for the processing power to process it/analyse it and some human agents to do the same. Now consider the NSA's budget per year, it just isn't possible. If you look at the NSA's data centre its power consumption comes no where near what they would need if they were storing at this level.

Think about it, if you were in government you would want all the Plebs to believe you were constantly monitoring all their activity would you? Heard of scaremongering. I'm pretty sure Snowdon is on the pay roll of the government to leak these 'leaks.

Take your tin foil hats of guys.

You have forgotten about the alien tech they have taken off the captured alien ships they have. WIth this alien tech they are able to store all this data. WHy else do you think today is friday ?
 
"The Internet"? that's a bit of a simplification and implies they were on the public domain. These are from private messages from all kinds of medium including MMS, instant messaging and email. Never mind facebook or any kind of forum.

'The internet' is a public communications platform. It is the equivalent of going to a public space and shouting out your personal information. Even if you encrypt, ie speak in a different language, there is a chance somebody else will understand what you are saying.

Thus there is an important difference between interception at the point of transmission, and capture from the source by gaining unauthorised access
 
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'The internet' is a public communications platform. It is the equivalent of going to a public space and shouting out your personal information. Even if you encrypt, ie speak in a different language, there is a chance somebody else will understand what you are saying.

Thus there is an important difference between interception at the point of transmission, and capture from the source by gaining unauthorised access

No, *parts* of the Internet are in the public domain and thus the equivalent of having a conversation in a public area. A lot is point-to-point and intended for a limited, private, audience. Just because it is transmitted over the Internet does not make it public.

As for your analogy on encryption, well that just fails. Encryption is nothing like "speaking a different language"
 
I'm sure they have the capability to monitor who they want, when they want, but storing ALL records of everything just isn't physically possible.

It's estimated that to store all the US's landline records it would be over 10 exabytes per year. Now add internet records, mobile phone records and the rest and we are looking at over 100 exabytes+ per year.

10 Exabytes alone per year would cost $10+billion a year just for the storage, forget power/maintenance costs and the costs to pay people to run it. Then the cost to pay for the processing power to process it/analyse it and some human agents to do the same. Now consider the NSA's budget per year, it just isn't possible. If you look at the NSA's data centre its power consumption comes no where near what they would need if they were storing at this level.

 
No, *parts* of the Internet are in the public domain and thus the equivalent of having a conversation in a public area. A lot is point-to-point and intended for a limited, private, audience. Just because it is transmitted over the Internet does not make it public.

As for your analogy on encryption, well that just fails. Encryption is nothing like "speaking a different language"

It is exactly like speaking a different language. Same meaning, different words.

Anyway, the bigger question is should the internet be regarded as a public, or private domain. If I give a letter to a courier, I naturally assume that courier to not open and snoop on my mail before it reaches its destination. However, what is private can no be so easily controlled, enforced, monitored and managed. You could send drugs in the post, or illegal material over the internet, and criminality would be allowed to flourish.

The situation therefore requires well reasoned and thoroughly scrutinised law, not a rushed law to preserve the status quo, and certainly nothing that this aggregation of career politicians out for themselves are capable of delivering - especially given our proximity to an election year where vanity overtakes practicality.
 
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It is exactly like speaking a different language. Same meaning, different words.

Anyway, the bigger question is should the internet be regarded as a public, or private domain.

No, encryption is not like speaking a different language. If somebody is speaking German and I speak some basic German I may be able to understand some of what they're saying. If a communication is encrypted you cannot "learn" some of the words. You either have the decryption keys, the algorithm has a back door or it is low grade and can be brute forced.

Technology has evolved quicker than lawmakers. Government agencies have been quick to use the Internet to their advantage in a dragnet way. They've been caught out and now lawmakers are trying to knee-jerk laws into place to keep these powers despite the EU saying it's illegal. All in the name of "security"

As for the Internet. As I said, it's neither private nor public. It's should never be entirely public or private. It is what it is. For good or for ill.
 
'The internet' is a public communications platform. It is the equivalent of going to a public space and shouting out your personal information.

No it's not. No more than the postal service or phone service is. You do not broadcast your information, you send your information point to point. Either unsecured (postcard), or secured (letter).

When you broadcast your information (youtube comment, Facebook, twitter), then it is public domain as anyone can read it.

No one has any business opening my letters. If it's a 'random check' and nothing comes of it, then notify me the letter has been opened as part of a routine check (some stamp / sticker tape on the package). If it is indeed part of an investigation, I expect to be some accountability and records later on. Same with any form of private communication.

When you go through port customs, there are procedures in place. They can't just go through your stuff and rummage around your vehicle without you at least being present during the search (I know, and I expect it by now, I fit some kind of profile). What I'd want as well, is some acknowledgement of the search in writing. They just put your stuff back in and off you go, like nothing happen (at least on your side).

Them snooping and compiling data based on public information is already questionable and creepy (do you find Facebook or Google creepy, using your public data and usage patterns for business purposes?), but them getting access to private information without any accountability is a violation of individual rights. Requesting data retention from the ISPs is disingenuous. It puts the burden on them to do their dirty work. I don't have, per se, anything against keeping a secured remote record of private history (That's what your email provider does anyway), I just don't trust them to play nice. What's in my inbox or my chat history stays in my inbox or my chat history.

No private company or individual would be allowed to do so, why should government agencies be an exception? They are already an exception and can request access to private content as part of an investigation. Investigation meaning, there is a history of the records available. Ultimately, the 'accused' has the right to know.

I like to believe that we are leaving in a democracy, and completely sacrificing those basic human rights effectively forever because there is a threat is basically giving in. In that case both party profits, Joe Public just has to stand in the crossfire and shut up.

But Home Secretary Theresa May had said: "If we delay we face the appalling prospect police operations will go dark, that trails will go cold, that terrorist plots will go undetected.

"If that happens, innocent lives may be lost."

Useful Idiots.
 
No, encryption is not like speaking a different language. If somebody is speaking German and I speak some basic German I may be able to understand some of what they're saying. If a communication is encrypted you cannot "learn" some of the words. You either have the decryption keys, the algorithm has a back door or it is low grade and can be brute forced.

*Sigh* It is clear enough that you don't get it, but your inability to comprehend something simple is not my problem. It is exactly like speaking in a different language. A language is still a language even if only two people are speaking it. As for your example about 'learning some new words', wiki rainbow tables, which are what hackers are using Right Now to decrypt stolen lists of password hashes.
 
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*Sigh* It is clear enough that you don't get it, but your inability to comprehend something simple is not my problem. It is exactly like speaking in a different language. A language is still a language even if only two people are speaking it. As for your example about 'learning some new words', wiki rainbow tables, which are what hackers are using Right Now to decrypt stolen lists of password hashes.

Hashing and encryption are completely different.

If you know the encryption algorithm you can decode the whole message , there is no some of it but not all. In a different language you can understand bits of it without being able to know all of it. You are completey wrong, end off.
 
No one has any business opening my letters

I am not disagreeing with you! However, when you place a letter in the hands of a courier, other than yourself, you are placing your trust in that courier to deliver. The courier is not you, may not share your beliefs or your loyalty. A wise man will place his letter in the hands of a courier he trusts, absolutely, and even then will expect some doubt, hence encryption. However the internet is not a single entity nor is it subject to ownership or control. It is not 'yours', 'ours' or 'theirs'. If 'the internet' behaves in a way you do not like, you can not switch service providers and get a new internet with a new set of beliefs that are more loyal to you.

So the question remains, what is the balance between safeguarding (This letter may be harmful) and privacy (No one has any business opening my letters)
 
Hashing and encryption are completely different.

If you know the encryption algorithm you can decode the whole message , there is no some of it but not all. In a different language you can understand bits of it without being able to know all of it. You are completey wrong, end off.

Bull. Hashing is one way encryption. The result may have a non-unique equivalence to the starting point, and the inversion is considered so hard as to be unfeasible, note not impossible.
 
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