So apparently Britain doesn't need IT specialists...

Malt_Vinegar said:
I think we shall have to differ on this, I suspect we work in very different environments.
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I think it all depends on how the management structure is set up in different companies.

I've worked at places where you have completely non-technical managers and then senior techies who don't actually manage anyone, but are responsible for any technical issues that need to be escalated and providing technical guidance to people.

I've also worked at places where managers are expected to know the technical side as well as do basic management.
Both approaches can work depending on the people involved, but my experience has suggested that the former works better.
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
I think we shall have to differ on this, I suspect we work in very different environments.

My departmental managers have always been technically competant, and people i could get advice from and bounce ideas off. Thats my idea of a manager in a technical environment.
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I'm in a small company where the managers are competent, but only because they were in positions like mine and have been promoted. It is not absolutely necessary for the manager to know all the in's and out's. That's what the technicians are for.
 
Telescopi said:
Is using a command line with arguments technical then?
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It's not as clear cut as that. An example is my house mate who thinks he is amazingly technical because he can choose a few options on a popup for his VPN connection, but is completely unaware of even the concept of how those options actually 'execute'
 
hargi said:
Scorza how much work needs to go in to BCS
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No idea - as I said I've not joined :p . I imagine the CPD scheme requires lots of work since it results in CITP status, then again, that's not appropriate for everybody.

If you're just going to join to get the letters after your name on your CV, then imo it's not going to be worth it. I was an associate member after I graduated from University, flicked through the newsletter and put it straight in the recycling bin, which was a waste of £80 a year. If I join again as I member I plan on at least making it to the odd lecture that they run in my geographical area, do a bit of networking etc, find out about the CPD scheme.

Remember though, that being an IT professional is not just about your technical skills. My boss is actually a CEng through the IEE, yet he hasn't done any technical work for years :p he's purely a project management bod now - good at Excel and Project, couldn't do any programming.
 
Dj_Jestar said:
It's not as clear cut as that. An example is my house mate who thinks he is amazingly technical because he can choose a few options on a popup for his VPN connection, but is completely unaware of even the concept of how those options actually 'execute'
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Do you know how your CLI interacts with machine code, or how the hardware processes the machine code?
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
Do you know how your CLI interacts with the machine code, or how the hardware processes the machine code?
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Yes. But on an higher level, my house mate does not understand that there is something behind the label, or checkbox, or button. "It's just a button" is a phrase I frequently here from him, in terms of "They should add a button that does xyz, feed the cat, take the dog to the vet and tuck me in at night. Can't be difficult, it's just a button."
 
Dj_Jestar said:
Yes. But on an higher level, my house mate does not understand that there is something behind the label, or checkbox, or button. "It's just a button" is a phrase I frequently here from him, in terms of "They should add a button that does xyz, feed the cat, take the dog to the vet and tuck me in at night. Can't be difficult, it's just a button."
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I knew a guy like that at university : would always design beautiful interfaces and then say "can't be bothered to code the back end" as though it were a throwaway consideration...
 
Usually by process of coming through the ranks so to speak, A Manager will have technical knowledge from bottom > top. Although i know a few people in higher roles who have come through the ranks and still know nothing :)

I remember faffing about with commodore basic back in the mid 80's, I was only 5/6 maybe but managed to put together some pretty cool things with a few lines of code.......nowadays a lot of people think they are technical experts because they know how to change a few tcp/ip settings.
 
Again, real working experience has a real win over college/uni courses. I know for a fact :)

EDIT: oops, just realised i was searching past previous posts, then replied!
 
Jonny69 said:
Well I have no qualification in IT, no background in IT and I made a living for 4 years doing home repairs and charging to make websites after reading a little about HTML. But people kept calling me back, time and time again. I then went into employment knowing nothing about my subject and trained on the job. I learned it all there and from what I read here I was earning a lot more than many in a similar role elsewhere.

What's the problem with that?

Edit: The point of that report is the UK doesn't need It specialists from abroad, we have plenty here already.
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Amen.
 
Shoseki said:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/09/uk_skills_shortage/

...anyone can jump on the web and read up a bit of HTML etc and start charging people to make websites...

:confused:
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That's why there is so much garbage in internet. Because people that have no idea about Internet start developing websites: without methodologies, standars or quality...

and it is the same in the ICT area in many companies...
they don't have a simple manual or documentation of the systems they use. The systems are full of bugs, and there is no consistency in the information...

How many of you i.e. pay the TV license and receive a monthly letter saying that your address is not registered in their database....


But the managers are guilty, for employing people that have no real education, or a real certificate from a university as a backup for what they pretend to know...
 
the problem lies, IMO, with the fact that the vast majority of IT managers are the techys that were half assed, were in it for the money and were smooth talkers. The proper, decent IT staff *generally* dont have the blagging skills to make it upwards, and when they do, a lot of the time they dont have decent people / management skills.
 
After BCS membership was mentioned in this thread i did a bit of reading up on it and it seems that the majority of these forums who know about it think its a waste, but are memberships to similar such things also worthless? Like an IET membership?
 
One thing that annoys me is how people seem to gain "Senior" in their job title, by time spent at a company, and not ability. I had to explain to a "Senior....." (technical role) how to telnet to a device the other day.
 
Dj_Jestar said:
In my opinion, the "super weak" are those who know not a lot more than how to build a machine, apply MSI patches/installs, and may know a little about the registry. They won't have a clue about any OS other than Windows.

There are literally hundreds if not thousands of those people posting on OcUK forums.
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Fixed it for you :p

If I were an IT specialist I'd move to Australia, they need everything there, apparently :)
 
Ex-RoNiN said:
The problem is that "IT" is far too general a term that covers hundreds of different specialities, both technical and non-technical combined.

It is undeniable that IT is so varied to require more specific labels though, whatever they might be.
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The voice of reason.

I've seen & heard so much BS over the years with people who've left Uni with a degree and think they're experts in computing but wouldn't know how to install a font.
Some of our 'specialist' IT people can work miracles with a network hub but ask them about a simple computer question and you might as well be talking Chinese.
My mate/drummer is a software manager at the NHS and he hasn't got one qualification but worked his way up the ladder.
Once again ask him about a simple PC problem and he shrugs his shoulders.
It's also how managers perceive what you do.
I work in a building that teaches people all day and at least 3 times a week I'll be urgently called to a classroom because a printer, smartboard, USB pen isn't working and then I work my 'magic' (basics but major skills to managers).
 
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