So has everyone signed the Inheritance Tax petition?

dirtydog said:
It's hardly unfair is it. You as the recipient will have to pay a bit of tax on it, just like if you receive any other large cash or capital gain. It is very fair :)

That would be accpetable if the money had, for example, come from abroad and had not been subject to UK tax at all, or if it was profit from a business deal. The fact that the beneficiaries haven't earned the money has nothing to do with it. They paid tax when they worked for it and they paid tax on their mortage for example.

However this is money already taxed. It is essentially the passing of that already taxed money to another individual in the same family for example.

To quote Sequoia on whether it's a tax on the estate or not

The personal representatives of the estate pay it, before the recipient gets a penny. It is not a tax on the recipient, it is a tax on my estate (or whoever's died, that is).

Why?

Well, for a start, because it's paid before the recipient gets it. Secondly, because the extent of the tax depends on my decisions, not those of the recipient who (with one exception) has no say in the matter. Thirdly, because it's dependent on my personal circumstances, the extent of my estate and my decisions. The circumstances of the recipient have NO impact on the tax. A case in point, the recipient could be a pauper or a multi-millionaire, and that fact has no bearing on the extent of the IHT levied.

There are many other ways this could be done where it would be the recipient that pays. For instance, income received is treated exactly as that .... income .... and subject to income tax and CGT rules. Then, a 40% taxpayer would pay 40%, but a lower rate taxpayer would pay less (or nothing, depending on the size of the bequest and the circumstances of the recipient).

Next, I can specify whether a bequest is to be treated as before or after tax. Suppose I give one son £50,000 'tax paid', and the other son £50,000 'from the residual'. Assuming the estate is large enough to pay out that first £50,000, after IHT has been taken, he'll get £50,000 in full, with IHT making no difference to the sum. But the other son will get his £50,000 only if that sum is left after all specific bequests have been paid, and they are paid after IHT is deducted. So, if there's £70,000 left after IHT, one son gets £50,000 and the other £20,000. Again, as you can see, it's my will and my wishes that determine who gets what, and IHT that biases it in that way.

The government could, if it wished, treat an inheritance as income, and as capital gain. Then, if you inherited your "principal residence" (i.e. your home) you wouldn't pay CGT on it on disposal, because of the CGT exemption. But, if you already have a home, the bequest (as a second home) wouldn't have that PPR exemption and, on disposal, you'd be liable for the tax on the capital gain.

But again, IHT is iniquitous because as it works at the moment, the recipient is going to lose a large part of their inheritance (in many circumstances) because of the operation of the property market on an asset prior to them owning it, regardless of their income or circumstances. Suppose it's a house in the Home Counties bought for £4200 in 1965. It'll now be worth (in the order of) £420,000. In 1965, this inheritance would have led to no IHT bill. Now, on it's own, the recipient gets to lose £46,000 of that gain in IHT.

If it's a tax on the recipient, why should the amount they pay in no way relate to their personal circumstances, as it would if it were income?

Whatever people say, it's not a tax on the recipient. It's a tax on the estate.
 
dirtydog said:
No I just believe in a meritocracy.
Which is why inheritence tax should exist to an extent, but not the stupidly low levels the thresholds are at now
 
Signed. Its an evil tax - when your parents have died the last thing you're going to want is to sort out a hefty tax bill. Yes its not meritocratic, but its right to be sensitive to people's feelings.
 
Vanilla said:
To quote Sequoia
ZZzzzzzzz I've read quite enough from him on the matter thanks. To all intents and purposes the recipient pays it. You know why? Well you see the person who left the inheritance... they're dead :) And as he is an ex-member I'd rather not debate with him as he isn't here to answer.
 
Bes said:
Which is why inheritence tax should exist to an extent, but not the stupidly low levels the thresholds are at now
Stupidly low? What £285,000? Yes that's so low. Anyone receiving such a pitiful, meagre inheritance will be still be on the breadline won't they.
 
scorza said:
Signed. Its an evil tax - when your parents have died the last thing you're going to want is to sort out a hefty tax bill. Yes its not meritocratic, but its right to be sensitive to people's feelings.
Sorry but that's life - bills have to be paid. Why should IHT be an exception to that. Do you think IHT is the only bill which will need paying when your parents die?
 
dirtydog said:
Sorry but that's life - bills have to be paid. Why should IHT be an exception to that. Do you think IHT is the only bill which will need paying when your parents die?
IHT is morally wrong. A double tax on the dead. Scrap it.
 
House said:
Get rid of it?
So I can pay more tax now so that some ingrate kids that i've kept for 18+ years can have whats left when im dead?

I intend to spend every fraking penny before i go.
I intend to look after my kids even after I'm gone. I'm nice like that, signed.
 
dirtydog said:
Sorry but that's life - bills have to be paid. Why should IHT be an exception to that. Do you think IHT is the only bill which will need paying when your parents die?

Yes bills need to be payed, but why give the relatives of the deceased an extra hefty one? FWIW I dunno if it should be abolished completely or the threshold set very high, maybe a million - I don't know. If you think that £300k is high, remember that that includes the value of the home, with ex-council houses valued above 200k now in certain parts of the country, avoiding IHT is getting impossible.
 
dirtydog said:

Or maybe just the kids who have no hope of getting on the property ladder and think that maybe, just maybe they want to stay in the (modest semi-detatched) house they grew up in?

I am not actually against inheritence tax per se, but I am aginst the stupidly low threashold it is set at at the moment meaning even a "cheap" house in the south east is succeptable to IHT.

Inheritence tax was thought up to redistribute the wealth of the richest people in the land to help the poor. Recently it has swung completely the opposite way and now doesnt affect the rich (because of trusts and other things) and affects only the "poor".

Go labour go! :rolleyes:
 
Of course those that are rich enough to afford paying the tax are also rich enough to get around such things so it'll be Joe Bloggs who suffers.

Signed!
 
scorza said:
Yes bills need to be payed, but why give the relatives of the deceased an extra hefty one? FWIW I dunno if it should be abolished completely or the threshold set very high, maybe a million - I don't know. If you think that £300k is high, remember that that includes the value of the home, with ex-council houses valued above 200k now in certain parts of the country, avoiding IHT is getting impossible.
I wouldn't say the threshold is 'high', but nor would I say it is 'stupidly low' :) There is a case for adjusting it upwards, or making it regional, to reflect house prices. But there is also a case for leaving it as it is.
 
Amp34 said:
Or maybe just the kids who have no hope of getting on the property ladder and think that maybe, just maybe they want to stay in the (modest semi-detatched) house they grew up in?

I am not actually against inheritence tax per se, but I am aginst the stupidly low threashold it is set at at the moment meaning even a "cheap" house in the south east is succeptable to IHT.

Inheritence tax was thought up to redistribute the wealth of the richest people in the land to help the poor. Recently it has swung completely the opposite way and now doesnt affect the rich (because of trusts and other things) and affects only the "poor".

Go labour go! :rolleyes:
IHT affects only the poor? No, I don't think I can accept a definition of "poor" as someone with assets of over £285,000. That isn't poor :) It isn't rich, but it ain't poor.

As for the remark about Labour; I believe it was the Tories who introduced IHT originally wasn't it? And has David Cameron promised to abolish it, or make a significant increase in the threshold? Not to my knowledge.

It isn't a socialist tax; even in the ultra conservative US, under a Republican administration, they have the same tax there.
 
Mum has taken out a £300,000 Life insurance policy just to cover IHT. I'm fully against it. Signed.
 
dirtydog said:
Stupidly low? What £285,000? Yes that's so low. Anyone receiving such a pitiful, meagre inheritance will be still be on the breadline won't they.

Yes, stupidly low, stupidly low is when a tax designed for the wealthy affects an average family because their house is worth more than the threashold.

In the real world a niceish flat or a semi run down house in a resonable area in the south east costs £285,000. When IHT is only £100,000 above average house price it is way too low!


It also doesn't take into account sentimental value, maybe that corner table is worth £100,000 but if it is not going to be sold then it isn't actually worth anything.
 
Amp34 said:
Yes, stupidly low, stupidly low is when a tax designed for the wealthy affects an average family because their house is worth more than the threashold.

In the real world a niceish flat or a semi run down house in a resonable area in the south east costs £285,000. When IHT is only £100,000 above average house price it is way too low!
So you'll have a quarter of a million quid towards buying somewhere, which is quarter of a million quid more than people without inheritances will have. But you're still not satisfied with that :) Isn't it about greed?
 
Signed, and I've informed my parents who will sign it too. We've had many a discussion on IHT in the past and they are both against it. (so DD, it's not just the selfish, greedy kids looking for a handout but the hard working, scrimp and save for everything they have and don't want to be screwed by the government when they are dead, parents as well).

Panzer
 
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