So I'm thinking of getting a Mac... (which one for Logic?)

[Trifid]

I might as well come out with it, I'm not an Apple fan but can see where they are better, music production. I'm sure I've used every music program to grace Windows and none of them are as good as Logic. So here I am...


These are the models I've been looking at
£999 MBP - Spec is OK, but low screen resolution and integrated graphics are a little disappointing for the price. Price gets too expensive to resolve these issues.

£999 MBA - processor is a little weak, integrated graphics as well (but I could forgive it due to the SFF) and resolution is fairly low (does anyone remember when laptops had insanely large resolutions for their size a few years back?) but does have solid state storage.

£699 Mini - good spec and a graphics card, very small form factor PC and could be used as a TV PC before it is retired for good.
I did also think about going for the cheapest Mac mini and spending £40 to upgrade it to 8GB. Does the graphics card make any difference? Hardware acceleration maybe?

If I went for the mini I'll be looking at using it as my everyday PC and having it on 24/7 (13w idle usage? Yes please) will it be OK with this? I can also use it with my dual monitors (1x HDMI to DVI and the other DP).

If I went with the laptops, while it would be nice to be portable I fear I'd end up using it with 1 of my monitors to get more screen space.


So any thoughts regarding these issues? I'm really just looking for a nudge either way (probably MBP or Mini rather than the Air). I look forward to any replies.



Thanks.

 

[Jay794]

Haven't they just updated the macbook line? if they haven't then they're about to

 

[syke]

Any reason for not considering an iMac? You at Uni or anything? I bought my first Mac to replace a laptop and was considering the MBP, but ended up with the iMac and it was definitely the right choice! If for only portability, the MBP is the obvious choice, but i'd edge to the iMac personally..

 

[Trifid]

Haven't they just updated the macbook line? if they haven't then they're about to

Has there been an update since they got rid of the normal macbooks?

Any reason for not considering an iMac? You at Uni or anything?

My desk is already full with 2x 24" monitors. If this wasn't the case I'd have considered a 24" one, but 27" is a little big (set one up last year for a computer illiterate friend - first time using a Mac since GCSE music) and 21.5" is a little small for screen size but has a good res which does somewhat make up for it.


I'm not at uni.

 

[numatic.nathan]

iMacs are great machines, function well and keep their value, they are just silly expensive. But if you know anyone who's a student you should get at least £100 knocked off a Mac

 

[Atrox Moris]

I might as well come out with it, I'm not an Apple fan but can see where they are better, music production.

They used to be. They aren't now. And they haven't been for a long time (since PPC days). The belief that Macs are superior for music production and graphics work is clutching to past plus points. If you are serious about music production you want something with a dedicated sound card and some studio monitors. A Mac Mini, MBP, or iMac won't have that level of sound hardware. (My own iMac only uses an Intel HD audio chip).

I mean, your opening post is about getting one for logic, but you make absolutely no mention of the sound hardware, only the screen, graphics and storage hardware.

Also: Ableton is just as good as logic if not better in certain things.

 

[Trifid]

They used to be. They aren't now. And they haven't been for a long time (since PPC days). The belief that Macs are superior for music production and graphics work is clutching to past plus points. If you are serious about music production you want something with a dedicated sound card and some studio monitors. A Mac Mini, MBP, or iMac won't have that level of sound hardware. (My own iMac only uses an Intel HD audio chip).

I mean, your opening post is about getting one for logic, but you make absolutely no mention of the sound hardware, only the screen, graphics and storage hardware.

Also: Ableton is just as good as logic if not better in certain things.

What I want out of the music program is actually very simple, but it seems only Logic is any good at doing it, or at least does it in a way that suits me (Sibelius was close, I might give it another go actually). I want a piano and a violin virtual instruments (maybe other orchestral), no electronic beats, drums, guitar effects or recorded voice. I want to enter music and see it appear on sheet music in front of me and I want a nice easy way to edit the notes (including duration) should I need to. I also want to be able to select a note duration (say semi quaver) and then press the notes of the keyboard and it enter each of those notes as semi quavers one after the other, so I don;t have to worry about playing in time.

I expect I'll buy a USB/firewire M-audio sound card for it if the SNR output isn't very good but this is not a worry. The input and sound processing hardware I am not worried about as I will not be recording anything, just inputting music from a keyboard. Screen real estate I find quite important with any computer and would be quite expensive to change on the laptop unless I connect it to an external monitor.


I've actually wanted to do this for about 3 years now but haven't wanted to commit to spending money on a Mac from a memory of using it several years earlier. However I've been trying OSX and Logic in VMware on Windows and it has confirmed my desire to give it a proper go.

 

[Jay794]

I'm 90% sure they just updated the MBP's with sandybridge

 

[DangerMoose]

I'm 90% sure they just updated the MBP's with sandybridge

The MBPs did recently get a minor spec bump. The £999 model mentioned in the OP gained 100MHz to 2.4GHz and also got upgraded to a 500GB hard drive. Otherwise, pretty sure they are identical hardware to the early 2011 editions, which I believe is where they actually got Sandybridge.

 

[Disco Boy]

£999 MBA - processor is a little weak, integrated graphics as well (but I could forgive it due to the SFF) and resolution is fairly low

What's low about 13.3" @ 1440 × 900 or 11.6"1366 × 768

Most 15" laptops are 1366 x 768 nowadays!

 

[Deleted member 77746]

I tell you now you won't be disappointed about the MBA. I have one. Nothing bad about it.

 

[rogan]

the 13" air resolutions gorgeous!

 

[daveash]

They used to be. They aren't now. And they haven't been for a long time (since PPC days). The belief that Macs are superior for music production and graphics work is clutching to past plus points. If you are serious about music production you want something with a dedicated sound card and some studio monitors. A Mac Mini, MBP, or iMac won't have that level of sound hardware. (My own iMac only uses an Intel HD audio chip).

I mean, your opening post is about getting one for logic, but you make absolutely no mention of the sound hardware, only the screen, graphics and storage hardware.

Also: Ableton is just as good as logic if not better in certain things.

Ableton is not comparable to Logic. Not even in the same league. There's a very good reason that EVERY pro studio either runs Logic, ProTools or both.

Getting back to the issue at hand, a 13" MacBook Pro would be perfect. Integrated graphics make no difference within any DAW and it has enough processing grunt to handle stuff fine. You will need an external interface for recording anything of worth, though.

 

[arty]

What I want out of the music program is actually very simple, but it seems only Logic is any good at doing it, or at least does it in a way that suits me (Sibelius was close, I might give it another go actually). I want a piano and a violin virtual instruments (maybe other orchestral), no electronic beats, drums, guitar effects or recorded voice. I want to enter music and see it appear on sheet music in front of me and I want a nice easy way to edit the notes (including duration) should I need to. I also want to be able to select a note duration (say semi quaver) and then press the notes of the keyboard and it enter each of those notes as semi quavers one after the other, so I don;t have to worry about playing in time.

If you want to write sheet music - and it sounds like you do - rather than record and master music in a DAW, I strongly advise you to look at Sibelius or Finale rather than Logic, Cubase, Live, Nuendo etc. - they are emphatically not notation programs.

Assuming that the sheet music is canonical for you, rather than the sound the computer produces (synthesised or otherwise), then I'd recommend Sibelius as being the best balance of a user-friendly interface and fairly high quality scoring output I've used.

Feel free to chat to me about this, as I'm a working musician and have a good deal experience with DAWs and scoring programs, and accordingly I might be able to help you to select which is most useful.

For the record, when I studied electroacoustics the studios all used Macs - this was in the LCIII, then Powermac days - and even back then their dominance was starting to waver. Nowadays there are very, very few compelling reasons to choose one platform over the other specifically for music, unless there happens to be a platform-specific program you simply must have (e.g. Metasynth, which a composer friend of mine totally relied upon, and which only used to be available on Mac OS)

arty

 

[Atrox Moris]

Ableton is not comparable to Logic. Not even in the same league. There's a very good reason that EVERY pro studio either runs Logic, ProTools or both.

A load of crap. Ableton had most of the features of Logic at a fraction of the price. That's why it took off. The only reason that NEARLY every pro studio runs Logic, Protools or both is because they are still cluelessly hanging on to past plus points about either that platform architecture being superior for audio or graphic work or the particular audio or graphic software (and the fact that Apple bought Logic which allowed them to lock the software to their hardware, when once it had been a multi-platform application). As arty said "Nowadays there are very, very few compelling reasons to choose one platform over the other specifically for music, unless there happens to be a platform-specific program you simply must have..." and if you want the best sound from your machine, a PC with a dedicated sound card is better value than a Mac with a dedicated sound card.

 

[Tbid]

MacBook Pro for sure, Save up and get a 17 Inch

 

["andy"]

ableton > *

it also does what you want using whatever VST violin/piano plugin you want. i imagine nearly all 'pro' level audio software can do what you want. runs fine on my base spec macbook pro and ran fine on my old pc

you really don't ' need' to spend a grand on a laptop to do what you need , however if you are after a good laptop and have a grand spare then thats a different matter

thought about going second hand ? an older model mac will easy run the small logic tasks that you demand from it

 

[Trifid]

Thanks for all of your replies. Quite a few points have been raised.

ableton > *

it also does what you want using whatever VST violin/piano plugin you want. i imagine nearly all 'pro' level audio software can do what you want. runs fine on my base spec macbook pro and ran fine on my old pc

From what I have seen of Ableton it is not suitable for what I want.

thought about going second hand ? an older model mac will easy run the small logic tasks that you demand from it

Second hand Apple products are terrible value for money imo.

What's low about 13.3" @ 1440 × 900 or 11.6"1366 × 768

Most 15" laptops are 1366 x 768 nowadays!

I know they are. You used to be able to get 1080p 15" laptops but haven't seen any for a few years now.

The 13" MBP is 1280x800 btw.

MacBook Pro for sure, Save up and get a 17 Inch

£2100 on a computer? No thanks.

If you want to write sheet music - and it sounds like you do - rather than record and master music in a DAW, I strongly advise you to look at Sibelius or Finale rather than Logic, Cubase, Live, Nuendo etc. - they are emphatically not notation programs.

Assuming that the sheet music is canonical for you, rather than the sound the computer produces (synthesised or otherwise), then I'd recommend Sibelius as being the best balance of a user-friendly interface and fairly high quality scoring output I've used.

Feel free to chat to me about this, as I'm a working musician and have a good deal experience with DAWs and scoring programs, and accordingly I might be able to help you to select which is most useful.

Using the Logic Studio description, this is the part that I want (all of it).

Edit MIDI your way.

As a full-featured MIDI sequencer, Logic Pro lets you choose how you want to view and edit MIDI data. Use the Piano Roll Editor to graphically edit note velocity and length, while monitoring the results in real time. Or if you’re used to working with traditional notation, go to the Score Editor where new duration bars make it easy to graphically edit the length of notes.
Screenshot of writing screen
Music notation the way it should be.

Logic Pro features a complete set of music notation tools, including comprehensive layout and print options, instrument transposition, drum notation, and adaptive lyric input. You can generate guitar tablature with an expanded set of ornaments for notating hammer-ons, bends, fingering, and more. Snap guides make it easy to add the new chord grids, whether you choose from the library of more than 4000 or create your own.

You can transform MIDI performances into music notation in real time. If you prefer not to perform your compositions, you can use MIDI Step Input to enter notes one at a time using your computer keyboard, or define pitch and velocity with a MIDI keyboard as you go.

I'll give Finale a go too (seem to have missed that one) and as said before, Sibelius deserves another go, but do remember preferring Logic.

 

[arty]

Using the Logic Studio description, this is the part that I want (all of it).

<snip>

I'll give Finale a go too (seem to have missed that one) and as said before, Sibelius deserves another go, but do remember preferring Logic.

Scoring is not the purpose of Logic. I think that it's only really in there for legacy reasons and for people who occasionally might want to print out a sheet from a project.

Sibelius exists to allow people to author fairly high quality scores quickly and easily. That is essentially its sole purpose.

This means that the choice boils down to:

1. A DAW which is a powerful set of tools for recording and editing audio and MIDI data, with a very basic score editor for the 1/1000 times (if that) people want to use it

2. A notation program, which is designed to author and edit scores but which supports some degree of MIDI recording and other related things.

As I asked in my previous post, is the canonical version of the music you want to write what the computer plays back or the score you are writing? If the former, a DAW is the better option - though get used to avoiding the score editors as they won't show you the true picture (most MIDI data and no audio will be represented in them). If the latter, then you need a notation program.

Hope that's cleared things up a bit

arty

 

[FreeStream]

Second hand Apple products are terrible value for money imo.

Unless you find a bargain...

Found a 4 month old 2010 15" 2.4ghz MBP with 3 years applecare for £1100, saving over £300 off new from the HE store or over £700 from the normal store.

(It was a HE purchase in the first place, hence why the bloke could let it go for £1100 without crying!)

So, if you look, there are bargains to be had.

Edit: My mate has a 15" dell with a 1080p screen on it. Far far far too high resolution, hate it infact. 1680x1050 is a perfect res and my next 15" will be that.