So, the NHS...

Buddy · 19 Apr 2018 at 14:38

Freakbro said:
I went for a GP appointment on the 11th Apr and need some injections from the nurse, the 27th is the soonest they could do it..

Just to clarify. This is a non urgent injection? If so , is a two week wait really that bad? What's a reasonable time frame?

Freakbro · 19 Apr 2018 at 14:44

Buddy said:
Just to clarify. This is a non urgent injection? If so , is a two week wait really that bad? What's a reasonable time frame?

Well, it's not life threatening no...but I am in some pain, hence why I went to the GP in the first place

I don't know what a reasonable time frame would be, but the injection isn't going to take long is it, so I was surprised by a two and a half week wait

Buddy · 19 Apr 2018 at 15:54

Freakbro said:
but the injection isn't going to take long is it

You'll be one of several thousand patients at your practice also thinking much the same. Nurse appointments vary between 5 mins to 30mins depending on what is required.

Anything urgent I'm sure your practice has a system for same or next day. I think your post is an example of expectation vs reality of "just a quick injection". This is not meant to be a facetious comment btw.

Uther · 19 Apr 2018 at 22:10

I had a life threatening auto immune condition diagnosed as 'earache' by one GP. Once I'd got past that tool the care I received and continue to receive has been fantastic.
Is it perfect? No. But I'm certainly grateful that the NHS exists.

Russinating · 19 Apr 2018 at 22:15

NHS saved someone I knows life this year, so yeah. Short story is we phoned NHS Direct at 2pm and they were operated on at 8pm followed by 4 days in ICU. They had necrotising fascitis, a flesh eating bacteria that grows so quickly you can physically seeing it spreading in real-time. I wouldn't recommend Googling photos of it.

The mortality rate is 30% even with good quality, immediate medical care.

Things like that and the Salisbury case make you realise how advanced the NHS is when it comes to dealing with rare cases.

tres · 20 Apr 2018 at 08:14

Cost cutting measures at my hospital - no longer proving pens for staff.
Drives me mad when I work AT LEAST an hour for free every day.
I went in yesterday on my day off to do a death certificate, just so the family wouldn't have to wait.
Many staff do the same.
And we can't be rewarded with a 10p pen.
Grrrr

FishFluff · 20 Apr 2018 at 09:11

tres said:
Cost cutting measures at my hospital - no longer proving pens for staff.
Drives me mad when I work AT LEAST an hour for free every day.
I went in yesterday on my day off to do a death certificate, just so the family wouldn't have to wait.
Many staff do the same.
And we can't be rewarded with a 10p pen.
Grrrr

Don't be angry at the NHS, be angry at the people controlling the NHS's funding.

Tefal · 20 Apr 2018 at 10:02

DampDog said:
It does indeed.

The NHS now routinely allows private companies cherry pick the easy cases and pocket the profits. Only thing is, if it's a complex case they reject it, so the NHS spends it's cash sorting out the difficult cases. I've been having some ENT problems so went to my GP, and he referred me to a specialist. I used the choose and book and had an appointment with a private hospital within 10 days. The following day I had a phone call saying that I had been rejected by the private clinic because of my "cardiac" problems. The next available appointment with the NHS was 10 weeks.

The NHS pay "X" pounds for a service and if the private companies can come in cheaper or match the price, the work is handed off. But unless you are 100% fit in every other area, they kick it back to the NHS because it would cost them money. So they suck up all the easy patients and throw those back that look like they might cost them money. Plus once the NHS hand off the services to the private sector they will probably lose them for good, as they will never reinvest to re-establish the services internally

I owe my life 3X over to the NHS, we are lucky to have it. Does it always get it right or spend the money wisely, NO. But I'd sooner have it spent on the NHS than going into pockets of private shareholders.

How is any of that a bad thing?

Easy stuff gets done cheaper saving the nah money

Specialist complicated stufd gets handled by the nah ensuring thier doctors are always trained up and experinced on difficult cases and not wasting thier time on easy routine stuff?

It's not like the nah was going to profit off you easy case was it it would have cost them more and taken up a slot woth them.

Win, win a perfect example of partial privatisation working

Snookums · 20 Apr 2018 at 10:03

I’ve got share some love for the NHS here and reminder for you all to show your parents some love and appreciate them more or even get back in contact if you’ve lost it.

My father was told to hope for the worst on Tuesday due to severe symptoms of renal cancer, if any of you know about renal by the time it’s spotted and symptoms show it’s usually already spread. Was a horrible wait but after servers days he got the results of his second test and even after the NHS saying to prepare for the worst he got the all clear.

Now I know it was just a scare but in that wait you can only but think about losing a parent and it’s horrible. I’m also only 22 with a 3/4 year old younger brother and a 28 year old bother on the oversize of the world. The fact is when it comes down to it and the NHS can really pull a finger out and turn around things quickly despite being understaffed overworked and **** on by a lot of the general public.

Even if telling you guys this it only gets one person to speak to a parent it’s worth it alone. I’m not a crying kind of man but yesterday it truely sunk in and I became a blubbering mess for hours.

Seriously. Speak to your parents. The thought of losing a love one whom I see a couple of times a year ruined me. Let alone actually losing one.

DampDog · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:05

Tefal said:
How is any of that a bad thing?

Superficially it looks like a good deal for the patient, NHS waiting list =10wks vs 10 days for private consultation. But rather than using the "lets sub it to the private companies and spend the money outside the NHS," should we not be looking at improving the NHS anyway? Every time you turn on the TV or read a paper we are reminded that we have an aging and obese population, which in turn is going to need longer more complex care for more of the population.

Because they cherry pick the simple cases it sucks money out of the NHS. The private companies do the quick in and outs, where the complex expensive stuff get laid at the NHS's door. They in turn spend more money doing the tricky stuff so the money isn't there to resource the quick in and out cases, so even more gets farmed out. In the end they are farming so much out that there is no reason to keep that resource in house so it gets chopped. So the capacity to do it is lost forever together with the trained expertise that going with it.

The consultants that you see, are very often the same consultants that you see within the NHS, so instead of seeing patients within the bounds of the NHS they are away seeing the same patients at a different location. For even minor treatments chances are your still going to be seen first by a consultant unless it's something very trivial. The notion that it saves them work is wrong, it just moves it around.

Also it's private healthcare, the bottom line is profit. Once they have snatched enough of the services from the NHS they will set their own prices, and we will be in the same situation as we are with PFI's where to save money in the short term we spread the debt and store it up for the future.

It's just the lazy option farm it out because we are don't want to invest the time or money fixing it. The private companies are queuing up at the door because they know it's easy money to be had. Plus the government hasn't got the will or intention to fix it where it needs it. In 20 years the NHS will be gone and the government will be telling us all that we have to sign up to a "private health scheme" in the same way they are telling folk to sort their own pensions. It's about shifting the blame.

Private health care vs the NHS has it's merits, I've used both, they each have their strengths and weaknesses. But how many times have we seen that these wonderful deals with private companies turn out to be really poor value for money, and money pits for the tax payer in the coming years?

We are in a ridiculous position where the government commissions numerous reviews of the NHS and the majority of them say it's underfunded. What do they do? Just ignore them a go into their tantric chanting about look how much we've spent compared to them. (that applies to all political parties)

Tefal · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:07

DampDog said:
Superficially it looks like a good deal for the patient, NHS waiting list =10wks vs 10 days for private consultation. But rather than using the "lets sub it to the private companies and spend the money outside the NHS," should we not be looking at improving the NHS anyway? Every time you turn on the TV or read a paper we are reminded that we have an aging and obese population, which in turn is going to need longer more complex care for more of the population.

Because they cherry pick the simple cases it sucks money out of the NHS. The private companies do the quick in and outs, where the complex expensive stuff get laid at the NHS's door. They in turn spend more money doing the tricky stuff so the money isn't there to resource the quick in and out cases, so even more gets farmed out. In the end they are farming so much out that there is no reason to keep that resource in house so it gets chopped. So the capacity to do it is lost forever together with the trained expertise that going with it.

The consultants that you see, are very often the same consultants that you see within the NHS, so instead of seeing patients within the bounds of the NHS they are away seeing the same patients at a different location. For even minor treatments chances are your still going to be seen first by a consultant unless it's something very trivial. The notion that it saves them work is wrong, it just moves it around.

Also it's private healthcare, the bottom line is profit. Once they have snatched enough of the services from the NHS they will set their own prices, and we will be in the same situation as we are with PFI's where to save money in the short term we spread the debt and store it up for the future.

It's just the lazy option farm it out because we are don't want to invest the time or money fixing it. The private companies are queuing up at the door because they know it's easy money to be had. Plus the government hasn't got the will or intention to fix it where it needs it. In 20 years the NHS will be gone and the government will be telling us all that we have to sign up to a "private health scheme" in the same way they are telling folk to sort their own pensions. It's about shifting the blame.

Private health care vs the NHS has it's merits, I've used both, they each have their strengths and weaknesses. But how many times have we seen that these wonderful deals with private companies turn out to be really poor value for money, and money pits for the tax payer in the coming years?

We are in a ridiculous position where the government commissions numerous reviews of the NHS and the majority of them say it's underfunded. What do they do? Just ignore them a go into their tantric chanting about look how much we've spent compared to them. (that applies to all political parties)

But it doesn't suck money out of the nhs as it would have cost the nhs more to do it themselves and filled a slot that somone else could have used.

Your argument would only make sense if the nhs as a private and charges patients

footman · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:13

Taking "simple" cases out of the NHS deprives those in training grades from recognising and managing these cases before being involved with those of greater complexity.

Minstadave · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:28

Tefal said:
But it doesn't suck money out of the nhs as it would have cost the nhs more to do it themselves and filled a slot that somone else could have used.

Your argument would only make sense if the nhs as a private and charges patients

If you invested in facilities and staff it would easily be done on the NHS cheaper.

The cost that is prioritised is the immediate cost, it cheaper right now to pay for BUPA to do a load of minor ops to get the waiting list down and avoid the financial penalties of breaching the targets. It’s an expensive short term fix, not an effective long term solution.

The real fix is to plough in the capital investment to expand and improve NHS services but the Governemebt don’t want to.

DampDog · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:41

Tefal said:
But it doesn't suck money out of the nhs as it would have cost the nhs more to do it themselves and filled a slot that somone else could have used.

Your argument would only make sense if the nhs as a private and charges patients

The NHS does charge patients (well the taxpayers) Almost all procedures will be costed, which is how the private companies bid for certain procedures, scans, X-Rays, etc. It does cost the NHS money.

The waiting list are for the sake of argument 10 weeks. Everyman and his dog says that is too long. So they spend extra money outside the NHS with private companies to shorten the list. It may well cost them more to get it outsourced but at least the list come down. But it doesn't automatically follow that they are cheaper. Especially if there is a push to make the service look better or meet targets.

I don't want to get into a typical form **** for tat debate, life's too short. So I'll agree to differ and leave it there.

I think the NHS is a precious thing that we take for granted, I just don't want it to get screwed up for the folk who depend on it.

tamzzy · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:47

Tefal said:
How is any of that a bad thing?
Easy stuff gets done cheaper saving the nah money

Tefal said:
But it doesn't suck money out of the nhs as it would have cost the nhs more to do it themselves and filled a slot that somone else could have used.

not quite. private companies may provide "cheaper" procedures compared to an nhs hospital, because they know that if **** hits the fan, the first thing that happens is a 999 call to an nhs emergency department.
they don't have to deal with the complications of said "easy stuff", some of which can be life-threatening and mean that patients spend weeks on intensive care.
an intensive care bed can cost £2000 a day.

declaration of interest: intensive care doctor

Minstadave · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:50

tamzzy said:
not quite. private companies may provide "cheaper" procedures compared to an nhs hospital, because they know that if **** hits the fan, the first thing that happens is a 999 call to an nhs emergency department.
they don't have to deal with the complications of said "easy stuff", some of which can be life-threatening and mean that patients spend weeks on intensive care.
an intensive care bed can cost £2000 a day.

declaration of interest: intensive care doctor

They’re not always doing it cheaper either, they’re just offloading the waiting list because it’s cheaper to pay BUPA than the penalties for missed targets.

tamzzy · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:56

Minstadave said:
they’re just offloading the waiting list because it’s cheaper to pay BUPA than the penalties for missed targets.

yeah. that too lol

Will Gill · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:59

I think the NHS is fantastic, saved my life a number of times, also saved my sight after a nasty fall. Lovely staff, tremendous attitude and given the pressures they are all clearly under they do an amazing job.

Dis86 · 20 Apr 2018 at 14:16

Minstadave said:
The real fix is to plough in the capital investment to expand and improve NHS services but the Governemebt don’t want to.

Short term cost for longterm gain. Can't expect such common sense and forward thinking from a UK government!

RetiredGreyFox · 20 Apr 2018 at 20:04

Luckystrike123 said:
God knows how long it will take to get these GP tests sorted as its difficult enough getting booked in.

I have a lot to thank the NHS for, specifically as my son was conceived via IVF, but this experience has ruined my life, left feeling suicidal and suffering from horrible side effects from pain management medication.

Go to PALS in if you fail there go to COMPLAINTS.