"So what's your excuse for speeding sir?" ".......Hax"

Alex_6n2

Alex_6n2

Alex_6n2

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10119492.stm

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that cars don't currently have any defence for their software - Considering that it does require someone to get a physical connection to your car it's not like someone is going to hack into it wirelessly at the moment. Putting software protection would, probably, be an unjustifiable expense currently for car manufacturers. But it does pose an interesting question for the future. Our electronics are becoming ever more connected and our cars are becoming ever more electronic - Could we at some point see a problem with car hacking? It's quite a frightening thought. I mean, if someone hacks into your computer it's bad, but it won't kill you like having someone take control of your car "for the lulz" could.

Lets hope car manufacturers take software security seriously in the future. Maybe in 15 years time we might be buying cars based on their firewall capabilities as well as their crash protection? Frankly I prefer less electronics between my input and the car but that's certainly not the way modern cars are going.
 
As with most software systems, get something inside them that can pretend to be part of it and your away. The hard part is getting inside, and you'd still really need physical access to the car to do that. Maybe things like OnStar etc. in the US open things up a bit more, but I can't see any of those systems talking to the real systems in the car.

Admittedly, a nice way in would be an electric wing mirror. Snap the bugger off, hope there's some useful circuitry on that end and boom your in to a lovely exploitable packetized network.
 
The researchers showed how to kill a car engine remotely, turn off the brakes so the car would not stop and make instruments give false readings.
Click to expand...

Do cars use drive by wire for the brakes now instead of a mechanical connection from pedal to the brake hydraulics? :o
 
Zip said:
Do cars use drive by wire for the brakes now instead of a mechanical connection from pedal to the brake hydraulics? :o
Click to expand...

More likely the ABS or power assist wouldn't work. Pretty sure an unassisted system would work. (Have you ever tried stopping a car without the brake vacuum though?)
 
Brakes are hydraulic and work as long as there is fluid in the line, a servo cant be electrinically disengaged as its vacuum is supplied by the engine and there will be enough left even without the engine running to bring you to a stop, even without servo assitance you can still easily stop the car it will just be a bit harder on your foot.

Most folk would never notice if the ABS wasnt working.
 
How sad would you have to be to "hack" someones car, surly if you do het caught hacking it should be attempted murder?
 
I call BS on all this crap about cars having 10s or 100s of computers. They so blatently don't as they would be a waste of money. It's all done by one big ECU module.

Providing they aren't counting the chips in the CD player...

Maybe a big Merc or BMW will have a few more separate computers in it.
 
NathanE said:
I call BS on all this crap about cars having 10s or 100s of computers. They so blatently don't as they would be a waste of money. It's all done by one big ECU module.

Providing they aren't counting the chips in the CD player...

Maybe a big Merc or BMW will have a few more separate computers in it.
Click to expand...

Anymore exclusions you want to add in?

"All this talk about home computers having multiple processors is BS, providiing you don't count the GPU's and soundcard and...."

Lots of cars have lots of computers now, also counting the ecu as one computer might be a slightly simplistic way of looking at things.

ABS (actually 2x computers)
ESP (prob the same as above)
Airbags (modules)
Main ECU (several computers)
Satnav
CCM (for internal lights / electric windows etc)

The list of computers goes on and thats in a normal car built in 2001..........
 
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Researcher 1: Hey, cars are full of computers now aren't they? I think there's a niche in the market for car antivirus software.
Researcher 2: There aren't any car viruses or any real danger of hacking into car ECUs.
Researcher 1: Let's try to invent some!
 
I know for a fact the ABS is built into the ECU on my car. Also I know the TC is as well (I don't have it, mind).

I really don't think a little chip for accepting up/down switch input for the windows can be classed as a computer. It's just a microchip and some electric motors.

That's why I call BS on it. It's as though anything that is a separate electronic PCB is being counted as a "computer".

I also think it's silly to say the ECU is likely several computers. That's like saying a multi-core CPU is "several computers". Ever looked inside an ADSL modem? There's usually an ARM CPU and then the DSL controller chip. Both are hardwired together to work in unison. And both exist on the same PCB.
 
NathanE said:
I really don't think a little chip for accepting up/down switch input for the windows can be classed as a computer. It's just a microchip and some electric motors.

That's why I call BS on it. It's as though anything that is a separate electronic PCB is being counted as a "computer".
Click to expand...

Depends on the car really but things like one touch windows, auto dropping windows (which go down when you hold the keyfob), also the fact i can plug a laptop into my car, connect the that module and reprogram it kinda suggests its slightly more than a relay and some resistors.

If you look at Vag-com the list of modules in the car you can connect to and reprogram is long over 50 iirc.

NathanE said:
I also think it's silly to say the ECU is likely several computers. That's like saying a multi-core CPU is "several computers".
Click to expand...

Why?

Things like the airbag module have error checking across two chips (so the airbags don't go off unless they should).
 
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Firestar_3x said:
Depends on the car really but things like one touch windows, auto dropping windows (which go down when you hold the keyfob), also the fact i can plug a laptop into my car, connect the that module and reprogram it kinda suggests its slightly more than a relay and some resistors.
Click to expand...

Well I did say that I'd expect big Mercs/BMWs etc to have more because yes they have all that iDrive stuff where everything is configurable down to the nth degree.

Did you not get the memo that a big Audi estate fits into this "big car" category :p
 
NathanE said:
I call BS on all this crap about cars having 10s or 100s of computers. They so blatently don't as they would be a waste of money. It's all done by one big ECU module.

Providing they aren't counting the chips in the CD player...

Maybe a big Merc or BMW will have a few more separate computers in it.
Click to expand...

Small hatchbacks now commonly have:
-Engine ECU.
-Body Computer.
-Door Computer x2/x4.
-Airbag ECU.
-ABS/Stability Computer.
-Radio.
-Alarm.
Or combinations thereof.

All contain something from quite a powerful Processor to a simple micro-controller and CAN-controller.

They're all connected by - usually - 2 BOSCH CANbus networks, low speed in the car, high speed in the engine bay, bridged by the body computer.

The door computer is a good example of why, we can now have just 4 wires entering the door (2x bulky powr, 2x low speed CANbus), and the window motor, window switches, electric mirrors and locking all gets operated through these 4 wires. There's less to break in the hinge, what is in the hinge can be tougher while keeping the whole lot cheaper.
 
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