So Where Did Frodo Go?

Gilly · 21 Nov 2006 at 17:26

Bombadil's just a Morris dancer and is merely present to rebel against the dirty Frenchies

manveruppd · 21 Nov 2006 at 19:20

Ice Rich said:
Why did Frodo get on the boat at the end and where is he going?

Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat-ride.

penski said:
I have to admit that I'm a bit of a Bombadil fanboy. Purey because he is probably the only true enigma in Tolkien's world.

Nah, that's the one thing I wasn't sorry they cut. He never really fit into LOTR... Elrond would invite him to parties and instead of socialising he'd spend the whole night talking to the fern in the corner

Clerkin said:
very interesting. ive read the hobbit and LOTR but never really understood the whole undying lands thing. i was even more confused after watching the films.
it isnt really explained to the casual viewer who hasnt read the texts.

You think so? I saw the films with people who hadn't read the book and nobody complained about things they didn't understand. I actually admired the for managing to sneak in all the obscure references for us fanboys without really ruining it for the casual viewer.

Raymond Lin said:
I am glad Peter Jackson and his pals cut quite a bit from the book, the book(s) good as they are, they suffer heavily from pacing. In the first book, there are pages after pages of the hobbits walking through the fields, sleeping, singing, poetry, literally about half the book is filled with that.

I tended to just flip the page when they started singing.

I've read that the reason the first book has so much more singing and other incidental details irrelevant to the plot was because Tolkien hadn't actually planned the story in advance but was making it up as he went along. He had to write a bit every week to read to his friends when they met up at the pub (I forget what they called themselves, that group that C.S. Lewis was also a member of) so quite a lot of the early bits of the book were him "exploring" the world and fleshing it out while he worked out the broader details of the plot. I think I read this in that new book by Tom Shippey but I'm not sure. Also says that apparently when he was writing "Fellowship" he hadn't yet decided whether the Rohirrim were going to be good or evil. Someone brings up rumours about them selling horses to Sauron at the Council of Elrond. You'd think he's just doing it to create suspense for the reader, but he probably wasn't sure himself whether or not it was true when he was writing it.

About the films, I realise they had to cut about 80% of incidents in the book out, but he was HARDLY economical! Think about all those pointless fight scenes in the second film! That long interminable bit where the refugees are being chased by Saruman's wargs and Aragorn gets given mouth-to-mouth rescucitation by his horse is not only boring, it's not even in the book! A lot of the fight scenes in all 3 films could've been kept shorter while still being exciting, but the second film was well and truly retrieving the urine on that front. There's only about 20' of plot in there, and half of that is Arwen falling ill, which iirc isn't in the book either! They probably just stuck it in cause Liv Tyler complained that her part was too small, whereas there are so many other things they could've used that time for! They totally underplayed Gandalf's return, and his fight with the Balrog was very anticlimatic, and they edited Aragorn's friendship with Eomer out completely, which was a major plot element in the book. The first and third films were good, but the second one was an abomination: not just a crappy adaptation but an awful piece of cinema as well.
As for the songs not contributing anything, I think you're wrong: Billy Boyd singing to Denethor was one of the best moments of that film!

Gilly said:
and use the Silmarillion as a resource but not read it as if it were a book. You don't really gain anything from it.

HERESY!!

The Silmarillion contains some beautiful passages. It's not a "book" per se, as it was put together from JRR's notes by his son, which explains why it's a bit inconsistent in tone: parts of it read like a history book, parts of it read like a religious book, parts of it read like an epic poem. Still, I thought it was a wonderful book, and nobody who liked LOTR should go without reading it!

I hear Christopher Tolkien is putting together a "The Children of Hurin" book. I don't know how much of it will be JRR's actual words and how much will be simply extrapolated or expanded from JRR's notes by his son.

BTW, where did Aod get that map?

Aod · 21 Nov 2006 at 19:33

i scanned it in from my dads old copy of "A Tolkien Bestiary" by david Day about 3 years ago. it has propogated the internet since.

alexakasloth · 21 Nov 2006 at 19:52

He came to my house and we partied like it was 1224!

fish99 · 22 Nov 2006 at 00:45

Amp34 said:
Actually why were the elves so desperate to get to the undying lands anyway?

The undying lands, or more commonly called the elven isles or Valinor. It's where the Elves originate from before some of them left to travel to middle earth. So they're just going home.

The Silmarillion is well worth reading if you want the backstory that sets LOTR in context, but as said previously it's a difficult book to read since it's not really written as a story. Some bits of it make good stories though, and would have made amazing books.

Also as said previously, the LOTR book is so much better than the films in every way and anyone who enjoyed the films should really read the book to enjoy the real thing. Probably 90% of the dialogue is missing from the films, plus lots of good bits are missing and countless other bits have been ruined or changed beyond recognition. An awful lot of the film makes me cringe TBH. I think the screenplay is terrible, the directing fairly awful and it overuses special effects, many of which are badly done too. It's a pale shadow (a wraith if you like) of the book.

Having said that it's still enjoyable to watch overall, and it's nice to see the Tolkien world on film.

manveruppd · 22 Nov 2006 at 02:05

Aod said:
i scanned it in from my dads old copy of "A Tolkien Bestiary" by david Day about 3 years ago. it has propogated the internet since.

Any idea where that guy got the names for all those places to the south and east of middle earth that aren't even mentioned in any of Tolkien's books? :confused:

fish99 said:
...and it overuses special effects,

What ticked me off was that there was ONE SCENE where they had a perfect excuse to go overboard on the special effects BUT THEY DIDN'T! I'm referring of course to Gandalf's fight with the Balrog, as he narrates it to the Hobbits at the start of the second film. In the book, this is described as if it lasted for days and involved the unleashing of monumental forces which shattered the mountain-top and scarred the landscape in ways which the screenwriters for Dragonball Z would have considered extravagant! What Peter Jackson gave us, instead, was: Balrog swipes at Gandalf, he parries, sticks Glamring in Balrog's gut, Balrog falls over, Gandalf falls over. Cue Windows "Starfield" screensaver, end of flashback and the G-man's enjoying a smoke with his halfling homies.

Gilly · 22 Nov 2006 at 07:50

manveruppd said:
It's not a "book" per se

That was my point :shrug:

TylerB · 22 Nov 2006 at 22:34

Interesting to find out where he went, I pondered over this question for days, not finding the energy to open up google.

Glad i found the answers, with some laughs in the post also

Tyler

Pookie Bear · 22 Nov 2006 at 23:25

Remember to check out:

" A Tolkien Bestiary" by David Day, one of my most treasured possessions - so much so that it never sees the light of day now. Well, that and the fact it's in storage miles away

and

"An Atlas of Middle Earth" by some woman with a funny name (Karen ??)- I could go Google it but.......a great book to accompany any work of Tolkien.

and for reading the LOTR:

"Journeys of Frodo", a geographical reference book - well, it's a little plain, but I always used to have it open while I read the books. Then again, I like maps

it makes an excellent bookmark!

I also had a companion for the Unfinished Tales, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was called. All my favourite books are stored elsewhere

And as for The Hobbit being a children's book, I found Farmer Giles of Ham to be a fun read, and that was writen for children!

Simonnn · 22 Nov 2006 at 23:29

I really enjoyed the films and after reading this thread am really tempted to read the books, problem is i'm rubbish at reading and normally only do it before I go to sleep, and i'm normally gone in 5 pages. Takes me years to read books.

Superdude · 23 Nov 2006 at 00:48

Anyone seen Clerks 2 with the Super Geek?

I've been doing that routine for years.

I love the books but I find the films can become quite repetitive and drawn out at times.

moon man · 23 Nov 2006 at 07:54

Love the books and the extended lotr theres just so much more in that , not just filler , wouldnt watch the theatrical versions again

Mat · 23 Nov 2006 at 08:59

Peter Jackson dropped as director for the Hobbit...

Read all about it...!

MikGriff · 23 Nov 2006 at 10:20

Skidmark said:
"An Atlas of Middle Earth" by some woman with a funny name (Karen ??)- I could go Google it but.......a great book to accompany any work of Tolkien.

Karen Wynn Fonstad, I presume.

nero120 · 23 Nov 2006 at 11:24

Bernard said:
Eventually after Aragorns death, Legolas and Gimli both went to the Undying lands as well.

See, thats what I never got. If legolas could wait till after aragorn died to sail off to the west, why didnt arwen do the same? Women! :rolleyes:

afraser2k · 23 Nov 2006 at 11:28

nero120 said:
See, thats what I never got. If legolas could wait till after aragorn died to sail off to the west, why didnt arwen do the same? Women!

Too filled with grief over the loss of her husband? Old idea of romance/widow rather than these days when she'd probably be hooking up with Gimli a few months later.

nero120 · 23 Nov 2006 at 11:39

afraser2k said:
Too filled with grief over the loss of her husband? Old idea of romance/widow rather than these days when she'd probably be hooking up with Gimli a few months later.

Dwarven freak-fest? Yikes! :eek:

Pookie Bear · 23 Nov 2006 at 12:18

nero120 said:
See, thats what I never got. If legolas could wait till after aragorn died to sail off to the west, why didnt arwen do the same? Women!

My memory may be a little rusty, but didn't Arwen choose to become mortal after hooking up with Strider? If I remember correctly, elves were immortal uness killed physically or they gave up the will to live.

manveruppd · 23 Nov 2006 at 14:02

Yep, she got an elfenectomy done.