So who's preparing for winter this year?

the snow lasted a good few months up here last yr, the yr before and before that..

before that i didnt live here, but it's always going to be bad, the same here every year so i dont feel im being OTT..

ive bought some steel wheels and i'll be buying snow tyres

i live in consett
 
Scubascorpion said:
Loads of irrelevent links
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So the answer is 'no' then? There is no proof there at all.

Due to two unusually harsh winters, interest in winter, or cold weather tyres has never been higher in the UK. The benefits are now being understood - while winter tyres naturally work wonders in snow, they also work extremely well any time the average temperature is below 7c, often out performing summer tyres even in the dry. During early morning commutes, where the road temperature is around freezing they can offer noticeable more grip than a summer tyre in the same conditions, allowing you to make progress safely, and can stop over 5 meters shorter than the equivalent summer tyre from 62mph.
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Theory not proof and it simply says 'summer tyres'. I specifically asked you to avoid 'proof' containing just the nondescript term 'summer tyres'. You know very well that the performance even between two summer tyres can differ hugely so it's simply misleading to just quote them as if they are all the same.

Tirerack tested the Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 winter tyre against the Bridgestone RE050A ultra high performance summer tyre in icy conditions
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I didn't ask about sheet ice. I am never going to argue a summer tyre is suitable for use on sheet ice because it simply isn't.

For the UK climate a winter tyres wet performance is more important than the snow performance, with wet braking being the top priority.

At near freezing temperatures the Dunlop and Continental winter tyres out performed the summer tyre during the wet braking test.
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Where has this come from? Source? Tyres used? Conditions? Is this the Auto Express test? If so:

a) It doesnt feature my Summer Tyre
b) The summer tyre it does feature outperformed all the other winter tyres in the test in the wet braking test. Only those two tyres were better. The third best tyre on test in the winter tyre wet braking test was... a summer tyre! The summer tyre did poorly overall but this was almost entirely due to the weighting of the snow test, where it was predictably terrible. Remove snow performance entirely from the scores and I seem to remember the summer tyre actually ended up coming second or something..

...and it was a humble mid range PremiumContact as well, nothing like the wet performance of the UHP tyres many of us use instead!
 
Winter tyres come into their own when the temperatures really drop. They give better handling in the cold/wet too. It's what they're designed for? Snow is another matter. I think the better snow handling is more down to the fact that most people use thinner winter tyres compared to their summer ones.
Seeing as you're a BMW driver I thought you'd be big into winter / summer tyres. Due to the really wide rear tyres on the BM's?
 
The whole idea of a winter tyre is that they have a far lower "optimum" temperature to a summer tyre.

e.g. my winter tyres have a maximum ambient operating temperature of 12C, anything warmer outside and they feel like sponges.

But below 8C they provide far better grip than my summer tyres, I say summer I mean all year tyres.

Fox I don't understand why you fail to beilve that winters tyres have no effect? I know you deem them expensive for when they really only reach full potential for a couple of days a year but you cannot deny their effectiveness.

Im sure a lot of winter driving comes down to driving skill and Im sure you can handle your car just fine in the winter/snow but not everyone is a driving god and sometimes having winter tyres will provide extra confidence even if they could (with more skill) handle their car just aswell on summer rubber.
 
NathWraith said:
But below 8C they provide far better grip than my summer tyres, I say summer I mean all year tyres.
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You don't know this, as you've never compared them. It might well be true - I suspect the Polo has midrange tyres at best on as standard.

Fox I don't understand why you fail to beilve that winters tyres have no effect?
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I don't beleive they have no effect at all, I think that people get the wrong end of the stick through either misinformation, hype or marketing. I completely accept that as temperatures fall a winter tyre will offer better grip than some summer tyres. But there are a HUGE range of summer tyres ranging from the absolutely garbage to the absolutely awesome. Do you honestly think that as soon as the temperature hits 6c the performance-gulf between the best and worst summer cars is suddenly nil, and that they all perform the same? Because this is what the pro winter tyre lobby imply - that there are only two tyres in the world, a summer tyre and a winter tyre.

I can absolutely appreciate why on a cold wet winters day a dedicated winter tyre might be a better bet than a typical eco-biased hard-compound summer tyre.

But as yet I have seen absolutely nothing to convince me that on a cold wet winters day where there is no snow and no ice that a winter tyre will offer superior water clearing abilitiy or superior dry grip to a typical UHP tyre (MIchelin Pilot Super Sport, Eagle F1 Assymetric 2, ContiSport Contact 5P).

Nobody EVER compares winter tyres against these high end UHP tyres. These are tyres normally praised for fantastic wet weather ability and in dedicated tests often come light years ahead of other summer tyres.

To then expect me to beleive that they are all the same below 7c and any winter tyre will be better is just too much, IMHO.

Especially as the closest thing I've seen yet to a proper test - Auto Express last year - showed the summer tyre as coming 2nd or 3rd overall once you remove the snow scores, and it wasn't even a performance tyre...

There are lots of facts and figures out there to show you which summer tyre is the best, which one brakes the best, etc etc. There are almost NO facts and figures out there for winter tyres except for the usual extreme examples of 'Look how much better this tyre is when its totally snowy' or 'Look, it stops quicker on sheet ice' and the odd graph which doesn't even name the summer tyre being tested...

Couple this with the fact that I have never once in any winter I have driven excluding snow thought 'Hmmm, I could do with a tad more grip..' and you can see where my opinion comes from.

I honestly suffered from a bigger lack of tyre confidence on my cars OEM fit Dunlop SP Sport 2000E in a September than I did on it's subsequent replacements (Eagle F1 GS-D3, then Assymetric 2, then ContiSport Contact). I was very unhappy with the performance they offered and replaced them despite them having good tread so I'm no stranger to changing a tyre that doesn't feel right.

And, excluding white stuff, the UHP tyres I've run since have never even come close to not feeling right. Some of this will be because its pretty mild down here - its above freezing most times I drive - but it's not as if I don't leave Plymouth, heck I drove to Edinburgh last year in December..

Go back 5 years and you will find almost no mention of winter tyres on typical car forums. It was on nobodys radar. Nobody asked about them. Nobody felt they needed them. Everyone was more than happy with the performance provided by a quality normal tyre. Then we have a few years of snow and everyone panic buys and attempts to justify this to themselves and everyone else by explaining it isnt about snow, its about summer tyres being terrible when it's 4c, it's drizzling and you are going Christmas Shopping at the Trafford Centre - ie, a normal British winter.

In this country, rain is the most common and most typical adverse weather condition we face therefore I ensure the tyres I choose are tailored at this, not the ever-so-often snow.

I'd just love to see some proper testing - I'd happily eat my words if somebody went to the Contidrome when it was 3c and did a proper test of all the UHP tyres and the winter tyres and said See? Look, its fact. You can't argue with that.

But nobody seems to bother despite falling over themselves do the same in the summer... odd.
 
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ZG002 said:
The swift (sport) wouldn't go anywhere last year, It's got Eagle F1's on and is seriously bad in the snow, I went out once and got stuck at lights and slight inclines etc, People getting upset with me the lot. Never actually driven anything as bad before :confused:

Micra just don't get stuck tbh.
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Last winter (December 20th I think) I drove through a blizzard from Portsmouth to Cornwall in a 530d E60 last year with Eagle F1s fitted.

Did't have a problem... How can a swift be so much worse?
 
I love this whole "I managed fine" reasoning for not buying winter tyres. Well done, but it is nothing special - 95% of us managed fine, too.

That doesn't mean we want to "manage" with minimal traction. You wouldn't fit bald tyres and go out driving in heavy rain, even though you could "manage" the journey, now would you?
 
Panzerbjorn said:
Last winter (December 20th I think) I drove through a blizzard from Portsmouth to Cornwall in a 530d E60 last year with Eagle F1s fitted.

Did't have a problem... How can a swift be so much worse?
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Tyres don't have that much tread left, but more than enough (just been through mot and service with no advisories) I live on a hill and seriously could not get my car out it was pointless, Got the Micra out easy, Works van out easy. Hell I even got an FTO out. I don't need to use my car in the snow so I don't. I barely use it as is (3k miles last year) as I have a works van for getting to work.

Will be replacing the tyres next year so will see if it fairs better.
 
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MikeHiow said:
I love this whole "I managed fine" reasoning for not buying winter tyres. Well done, but it is nothing special - 95% of us managed fine, too.

That doesn't mean we want to "manage" with minimal traction. You wouldn't fit bald tyres and go out driving in heavy rain, even though you could "manage" the journey, now would you?
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That's not the point I was making and I didn't say I 'managed' I said I didn't have a problem.

ZG002 said he couldn't move last year in a Swift Sport fitted with Eagle F1s. I was saying that I managed a 200 mile journey in a front-engined, RWD car fitted with the same tyres so I struggle to see how he 'couldn't move'. Although he has clarified since I posted, which is fair enough.

You're right, I wouldn't fit bald tyres to go out in the rain but we get rain every-other day in this country. We get snow once or twice a year for a few days so it doesn't justify the cost of winter tyres. If we all lived in Abu Dhabi, slicks would be fine and we could 'manage' on the 15 days a year when they actually get rain.
 
MikeHiow said:
I love this whole "I managed fine" reasoning for not buying winter tyres. Well done, but it is nothing special - 95% of us managed fine, too.

That doesn't mean we want to "manage" with minimal traction. You wouldn't fit bald tyres and go out driving in heavy rain, even though you could "manage" the journey, now would you?
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This would be relevent if winter was a succesion of just about managing fine.

It's not. I wouldnt 'just about manage' for 5 months.

I had to negotiate freshly packed snow on exactly one occasion. I suspect you were quite similar given where you live.

Obviously further North it bcomes more of a concern.
 
I wouldn't fit winter tyres myself, I think it's only a mix tyre tread and tyre pattern that have seen my car stuck. Everything else I have and will drive in the snow I've been fine with. Even had a spell in a E36 in the snow and it was ok, But then I live on the coast and the snow doesn't get real crazy here.
 
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As most people know diesel cars take an age to warm up in winter. Work is a 20 minute trip and on the coldest days last year (-15c) the engine only just got up to 75c where it usually sits at 85c. Our petrol car gets up to temp in under 5mins in comparision.

My car is a peugeot 307 hdi 90 and on the coldest period last year my mpg was down to 42 mpg whereas it usually gets 54 mpg on a tank full.

Would it be a stupid idea to tape up my front grill to help stop the cold air coming into the engine bay? Car is grey/silver so gaffer tape would do the job.

Just wondered if anyone else has tried the same?
 
[TW]Fox;20140361 said:
Nobody EVER compares winter tyres against these high end UHP tyres.
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http://www.tirerack.com/winter/wintertesting.jsp

Lots of test data there for you to read on winter tyres vs equivalent manufacturers performance tyres. Some of which involves only changing 2 tyres back to all season.

UHP tyres are designed to be used in rain and dry conditions and can be pretty good in most conditions like you say, but they do use softer compounds that work better when warmer so they do suffer in sub zero compared to winter tyres.

For most conditions the difference in performance between all season and equivalent winter tyres is small, but where the winter tyres excel is severe adverse conditions ie snow and ice.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=116 shows Winter vs all season vs UHP

Of course none of this means Winter tyres are a good choice, it means if you have to drive in those conditions they could be worth it.
 
Usel said:
As most people know diesel cars take an age to warm up in winter. Work is a 20 minute trip and on the coldest days last year (-15c) the engine only just got up to 75c where it usually sits at 85c. Our petrol car gets up to temp in under 5mins in comparision.

My car is a peugeot 307 hdi 90 and on the coldest period last year my mpg was down to 42 mpg whereas it usually gets 54 mpg on a tank full.

Would it be a stupid idea to tape up my front grill to help stop the cold air coming into the engine bay? Car is grey/silver so gaffer tape would do the job.

Just wondered if anyone else has tried the same?
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I block half my radiator in winter!
 
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