Solar energy and the Feed-In Tariff - your opinions

[Thomas L]

Hi all.

I am researching solar photovoltaic and the Feed-In Tariff for my dissertation - in particular public opinions on the topic. For those who don't know the Feed-In Tariff pays you (generously) to generate your own energy at home.

If you are interested in domestic solar energy and the returns available under the Feed-In Tariff please take a look at my guide which is hosted here:

http://www.housingenergyadvisor.com/blog/fact-sheet-solar-pv-photovoltaic-fit-tariff/

Whilst you are there if you could quickly complete my questionnaire (link provided on the above page) that would be excellent and will assist me greatly in my dissertation.

Anyone who completes the questionnaire will be entered into a prize draw for £20 worth of high street vouchers! Just PM me and I will enter you into the draw.

All information will be kept confidential and no personal details are required.

Many thanks,

Tom

 

[jak731]

If you are going to do solar PV I don't think the UK is the right location, the insolation is just too low compared to other areas:

Much more CO2 could be offset in other places. From this point of view the feed in tariff is subsidising something which isn't really beneficial to the UK. Solar hot water can be worthwhile in the south though, but I think the tariff is only for electricity generation.

 

[Cosimo]

Questionnaire done.

 

[Glaucus]

If you are going to do solar PV I don't think the UK is the right location, the insolation is just too low compared to other areas:

Much more CO2 could be offset in other places. From this point of view the feed in tariff is subsidising something which isn't really beneficial to the UK. Solar hot water can be worthwhile in the south though, but I think the tariff is only for electricity generation.

have to disagree a 3-4kw system will provide all your electricity in the uk(~5000kwh) and will last ~30 years. It would provide even more if you fitted a sun tracker. People often come up with it takes more energy to produce or it releases more co2 but that is just complete rubbish and nothing more than a myth.

The feed in tariff is great. You need to produce demand early on, which then leads to mass production, development and acceptance by general public.


Edit done.

 

[Archy]

If you are going to do solar PV I don't think the UK is the right location, the insolation is just too low compared to other areas:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e14/py07jo/random pics/solar.png

Much more CO2 could be offset in other places. From this point of view the feed in tariff is subsidising something which isn't really beneficial to the UK. Solar hot water can be worthwhile in the south though, but I think the tariff is only for electricity generation.

You have quoted an image for Solar Thermal, the op is talking about photovoltaic, 2 different technologies afaik.

 

[Seft]

If you are going to do solar PV I don't think the UK is the right location

I agree. We shouldn't be spending taxpayer money to divert solar panel installations to a country that gets relatively little sun. It's ridiculous how much of the world's solar panels have ended up in Germany and Scandinavia.

 

[HardwareGeek]

Hey

Answered the survey for you dude, my overall impression is its a great idea but the tech isnt mature yet tbh.

Btw i sometimes install these systems as part of my job lol

ps. Best use of the FIT is to buy at 20p a unit and sell it back at 40p , shame i think they might notice

 

[jak731]

The first picture is for solar thermal but it's more or less the same for PV, insolation is a measure of solar radiation energy received on a given surface area in a given time btw. Here's a more detailed map for Europe:

Remember from the first picture that some areas are even better than Spain and northernmost Africa.

have to disagree a 3-4kw system will provide all your electricity in the uk(~5000kwh) and will last ~30 years. It would provide even more if you fitted a sun tracker. People often come up with it takes more energy to produce or it releases more co2 but that is just complete rubbish and nothing more than a myth.

The feed in tariff is great. You need to produce demand early on, which then leads to mass production, development and acceptance by general public.


Edit done.

Don't miss understand me, I'm not saying that PV should never be done, just that the UK isn't the right place. Even in the UK the panels will offset more CO2 than was required in manufacture and transport, but they would offset way more somewhere else.

Even if solar panels were ten times cheaper than they are now we couldn't use them for more than 10-20% of total supply in the uk, because it's intermittent and needs backing up by other sources, the same as wind.

 

[Angilion]

I think that it's wrong to spend public money propping up a system that clearly does not work and cannot ever work just because it provides a politically useful way to buy the "green" votes of people who can't be bothered to look at it.

Not only are there far more efficient ways to spend public money on reducing the environmental impact of our country, there are more efficient ways to waste public money pretending to do so.

It's a wasteful lie that sucks money away from things that might be genuinely useful.

 

[Glaucus]

But other places aren't the uk, we need to secure our own energy and pv cells in the uk are already workable and only improving.

 

[jak731]

It would be more sensible to increase offshore wind to provide 20% of total supply, build new nuclear to provide the majority of base load and have gas turbines fill in the gaps between supply and demand when the wind fails.

Have a read of the Integral Fast Reactor

 

[Amp34]

Even if solar panels were ten times cheaper than they are now we couldn't use them for more than 10-20% of total supply in the uk, because it's intermittent and needs backing up by other sources, the same as wind.

That's the point that most people seem to miss, or just get the wrong way round...

Obviously relying on Solar or wind, or even gas is a stupid idea, however a few percent from solar, a few percent from wind, a few percent from tidal etc and suddenly you end up with reliable renewable energy being the major producer of electricity.

Stick a couple of solar panels on every new build (domestic and commercial) and you reduce the average demand significantly (with very little cost to the consumer). Then generate more energy through communal sources (like offshore wind farms, soon to be generating a GW each farm).

EDIT: For your new post - What's the issue in producing a few percent extra by using solar? It doesn't have to be taken out of the 20% wind energy...

 

[Glaucus]

I agree been a supported of 4th gen nuclear for ages.

However power security is not going to come from one or two sources it's going to come in lots of way.
Nuclear, wind, pv and heat solar, heat exchange, hydro, properly insulated and energy efficient houses and industry/public sector.

Solar/heat exchange is something people can do themselfs, tariff feed in is need to start with to drum up demand to reduce prices and quicken development. It is down to about 12k and in 5 years expected to at least reduce by 50% if not more, some are saying half in price and double in efficiency. At some point feed in tariffs can be canned, but for now they are great.

 

[jak731]

The problem is cost, i'll have to check the figures but i think producing 1% of the UK's annual generation from PV would cost more than all the wind we have installed so far which provides about 5%.

 

[Glaucus]

The problem is cost, i'll have to check the figures but i think producing 1% of the UK's annual generation from PV would cost more than all the wind we have installed so far which provides about 5%.

Thats not the point, the point is to create demand to reduce costs and for public to pay for it, feed in tariffs aren't going to be around for ever and installation is not paid by government, so pretty irrelevant. If panels half in price and double in power a 4kw system would cost 3k and provide an average house with all there electrical needs, not a bad investment. When you consider you pay about £500 a year on electricity and prices will only go up. They have already significantly fallen in price and their life spans have gone from around 10 years to 30 years, this is exactly what the feed in tariffs are designed for. Not to creat massive electrical replacement, but to start the business demand up to take a private consumer base.

 

[jak731]

The reason there is a yellow dot lower left on the second image is I did a case study on Moura Photovoltaic Power Station located there for part of a module on my masters. Because of the scale of the plant it produces cheaper electricity than installing panels on houses. It generates 88GWh annually and cost €261,000,000. The UK uses 345TWh of electricity annually. The highest insolation in the UK in Cornwall at about 60% of that in Moura, so the from the same plant you would expect 53GWh. To provide 10% (34.5TWh) from solar panels in Cornwall would cost approximately €170,000,000,000 or £149 billion. To get the same from offshore wind in the UK is about £11 billion. So PV needs to come down in price more than 13 times to be competitive with wind.

 

[Glaucus]

Again your totally missing the point. It is designed to set up competion, business and development for private purchases. Which will significantly reduce costs and significantly increase production. I forget what company it is, but they are producing small cells that are twice as efficient and hope to get it scalped up in the next few years.
It's not stopping wind farms or nuclear they are going ahead.

Also it doesn't need to come down in price that much. Needs to come down so a family can afford it and with relatively fast pay back. No where now where near 13 times, not even 4 times. As that would bring it down to 3k and you wouldn't be able to keep up with demand at that price.

There are some government schemes for solar plants, mainly for development/proof. But most funds are aimed at personal use.

 

[Maccapacca]

I got approved to have free solar panels on my roof but no one could give me a straight answer about when I sell the house, the T&Cs were simple enough but I didn't want to sign up for something someone else would not want therefore limiting my market when I come to resell.

 

[Goldy]

I'm all in favour of solar energy, either photovoltaic or heating.

However the biggest beneficiary of the feed in tariff is the banks. The FIT has been abused by companies who promise customers 'free panels' with no catch. Homeowners need to do a bit more research before entering into such a deal.

 

[Glaucus]

Why do you think the schemes are so bad. It offers you a reduction in electricity cost, with no up front cost.