Solar energy and the Feed-In Tariff - your opinions

Wow! Thanks for your responses guys, your feedback has been fantastic and some very relevant and well balanced points have been made. You have considered the pros and cons of this in a fair and detailed manner, something which has been lacking from some of my other sources to say the least - what a fantastic community!

Unfortunately I cannot get involved in your discussions as it may 'skew my results/your opinions' but as I say you have all made very relevant points.

Many thanks to those who have already done a questionnaire. To those who haven't feel free to check out my article in my OP and leave some comments on the questionnaire if you wish.

Many thanks again.

Tom
 
But other places aren't the uk, we need to secure our own energy and pv cells in the uk are already workable and only improving.

I was saying this in the Japan earthquake/nuke discussions, global thinking would be great, where instead of having say 20 nuke plants in Japan and 10 here, and both countries having 50 coal power stations, we think globally and its safer and smarter to have 30 nuke plants here and have a lot less coal stations here and a lot more in Japan.

So there would be the same amount of polution and power but its safer having nuke plants in the uk rather than Japan.

But as you said, the world doesn't think on a global or sensible scale, and frankly it won't in our lifetimes, right now it doesn't matter if every solar panel produced COULD be more effective in another country, that doesn't help the UK at all, in any way.

Would it be great if in a global thinking way we load up Spain, Africa, southern Europe, south america etc with solar panels, and then "give us" energy back.

But end of the day, that isn't going to happen, we can spend money and generate "free" electricity, or other countries can spend money and generate their own electricity, and that doesn't help us at all.

The problem with solar though, is simply production, and how much space they require. In terms of solar farms, they take up HUGE amounts of space, in terms of having every house covered in them, its more feasible, especially if families/companies that suck up more power then have to pay a much higher fee to get enough panels.

But then the bigger problem is the production, we literally can't build them fast enough to keep up with current power growth in the world, let alone catch up and replace existing power production and thats not set to change any time soon and ignores things like what will likely be the incredibly power growth rate in more 3rd world countries and the biggest manufacturing based countries like China.

Its a nice plan, it lets individuals feel "greener" but taking out a few thousands peoples power needs(and only sometimes) off the national power grid won't make any noticeable dent in power requirements.
 
But then the bigger problem is the production, we literally can't build them fast enough to keep up with current power growth in the world, let alone catch up and replace existing power production and thats not set to change any time soon and ignores things like what will likely be the incredibly power growth rate in more 3rd world countries and the biggest manufacturing based countries like China.

This again is nt a problem though for two main reasons.
1) national grid is not oil powered
2) it is a tiny slution to the bigger problem which like at the moment with the national grid, will come from lots of different sources.

On a side note, feed in tariff isn't just for solar. It is for electricity and heat generation, be it solar, wind, heat exchange pump, hydro (not that many people have a river in their garden)
 
I'm all in favour of solar energy, either photovoltaic or heating.

However the biggest beneficiary of the feed in tariff is the banks. The FIT has been abused by companies who promise customers 'free panels' with no catch. Homeowners need to do a bit more research before entering into such a deal.

Hi,

Can you expand on this? I am considering getting Ecovision to set me up with free panels. It is my understanding that they only take generated electricity that you fail to use and then sell that back to the grid for their own profits. In what way is this bad for the consumer?
 
Hi,

Can you expand on this? I am considering getting Ecovision to set me up with free panels. It is my understanding that they only take generated electricity that you fail to use and then sell that back to the grid for their own profits. In what way is this bad for the consumer?

Well the extra electric they hardly make money on (3p per kW I think). They make the most money from the FIT as they get over 30p per kW for each kW generated and not have to be supplied by the Grid.

Well they are really lending you the £12000 of the cost of the panels and then get the money from the guranteed FIT for 25 years. Payback of the £12,000 is about 7 or 8 years so really they are going to make £25,500 profit :eek: from their original investment of £12,000. I know a firm which has done/are doing 4,000 free installations. It's a great return - £48m investment which will be paid off in 8 years so you will have £6m per year coming in with no costs and after 25 years you have got £102m back. Great quick rich retirement plan for 8 years time.

So you would be much, much better off borrowing £12,000 from the bank and paying for the panels yourself.

There is the other potential issue which is when you sell your house, how will it be viewed by the new buyer.

Plus point, no electric bills. Downside no £1,500 per year income as the company gets that.

So in theory your house will be more diserable (and worth more) than a house without solar panels but worth less than a house where the solar panels are owned by the homeowner and the new buyer would get £1,500 per year. It might put some people off been tied into a contract which wasn;t of their chosing also.

But apart from that, it's not a terrible deal for the homeowner who can;t afford/borrow the set up costs. It's better than not having the panels at all.
 
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Thanks for the prompt reply.

I will look into purchasing my own panels then. That is assuming the FIT lasts for 25 years.

As suggested in post 22, can the Government do a U-Turn on the FIT or is this actually guaranteed?
 
Thanks for the prompt reply.

I will look into purchasing my own panels then. That is assuming the FIT lasts for 25 years.

As suggested in post 22, can the Government do a U-Turn on the FIT or is this actually guaranteed?

They say it's guaranteed for the 25 years from when you start. There is lots of talk that they will slash the rates soon so if you don;t get your panels before then you will be on the new lower rate.

If they did a U turn over the 25 years at a set rate then there would be hell on. All those companies who installed panels for free would try and sue I would guess.

Anyway details of the guarantee here:

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk...gy/Sell-your-own-energy/Feed-in-Tariff-scheme

Looks like the price will drop by the end of 2011 so move quick if you are going to get them.

ALso good info here if you are going to use a company offering free panels

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk...ity/Consumer-guidance-on-free-solar-PV-offers
 
Excellent resources, thanks!

One last question if anyone knows the answer.. If the average installation produces say 2KWp, how many hours per day is it likely to reach peak threshold. Obviously this is dependant on season and I suppose the location of the UK may even drop it below the quoted potential, but an average figure would be great.
 
Hi,

Can you expand on this? I am considering getting Ecovision to set me up with free panels. It is my understanding that they only take generated electricity that you fail to use and then sell that back to the grid for their own profits. In what way is this bad for the consumer?

What exactly are Ecovision offering you? If its free panels, then basically Ecovision benefits from the Feed in tariff themselves. They take the 41.3p per KwH instead of you. They will also get the extra few pennies if energy is exported back into the grid. On the plus side you get free panels and save a lot of money on your electric bills.
 

Lol.


Here they are, in all their Naked Sunstroking Glory......

SG201363.jpg



4kW system, that is the estimated annual minimum of 4,066kWh a year. About the average consumption of a typical UK household.
 
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Lol.


Here they are, in all their Naked Sunstroking Glory......


4kW system, that is the estimated annual minimum of 4,066kWh a year. About the average consumption of a typical UK household.

Was that part of the FIT or did you do it before that was introduced? Either way, how much did it cost, how much does it ACTUALLY generate and how much money do you make from selling excess to the grid if any?

I looked at joining in the FIT thing as from the numbers alone it looks great. I could easily take out a 12k loan to cover the installation if it was to cost that much.

It's just one of those things that as good as it looks, people are still sceptical of PV panels in this country because you get one lot of people telling you that its fantastic and wonderful and others telling you that it doesn't generate enough in this country and that its a waste of time and money.

Also looking at the numbers on the FIT it looks to good to be true. And we all know what we are taught about things that look too good to be true. That's part of where the scepticism comes from for most people.
 
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Was that part of the FIT or did you do it before that was introduced? Either way, how much did it cost, how much does it ACTUALLY generate and how much money do you make from selling excess to the grid if any?

I looked at joining in the FIT thing as from the numbers alone it looks great. I could easily take out a 12k loan to cover the installation if it was to cost that much.

It's just one of those things that as good as it looks, people are still sceptical of PV panels in this country because you get one lot of people telling you that its fantastic and wonderful and others telling you that it doesn't generate enough in this country and that its a waste of time and money.

Also looking at the numbers on the FIT it looks to good to be true. And we al know what we are taught about things that look too good to be true.



It was only installed a few days ago, and so far it is producing around 25kWh a day. It cost just under £12k to install took the Electricians about 7 hours to do and given my location and size of installation the estimates are in the region of £1800-£1900 with 3603Kwh produced over the year, which is a conservative estimate.

The main income is from the Generation Tariff, the amount of income from the Export tariff is pretty dire so it is better to use it rather than sell it.

We get 43.3p for each kWh generated, I'm not sure on the export tariff, but I think it is about 4 or 5 pence per unit, so better to use it if you can as to buy it back would cost around 11p.


There are a lot of factors to consider when deciding on Solar PV, the most important being your location. I live in the south, so better weather means better production and as the installation comes with a 25 year guarantee at 80% of rated performance over that period it seemed a prudent thing to do and although it is early days everything seems to be as advertised.

Either way the £12k spent will earn more for me long term than leaving it a savings account, especially in the current climate. (pardon the pun)
 
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Also looking at the numbers on the FIT it looks to good to be true. And we all know what we are taught about things that look too good to be true. That's part of where the scepticism comes from for most people.

That is true. They are very, very generous rates paid. 43.3p/kWh plus another 3p (i think) for any surplus your house generates is a lot of money.

But it's working. The amount of PV solar panel installations this year will be huge. That is the point of them offering so much money.

Come the end of 2011 and they have a review, I am sure that the rates offered will drop for new people to perhaps 30p or even 20p. Even at 30p it would be worthwhile but your payback for investement would be 12 or 13 years.

Of course as technology advances and prices come down they have to drop the rates. If you could get a 4Kw system for £3,000 there is no way they would keep paying you £1500 per year to have it.

So in summary, it's a very generous offer and anybody getting on the bandwagon quickly will make money.
 
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