Solar Panel advice
- Thread starter Admiral Huddy
- Start date
I'm not to overly concerned about this.. Our roof level is not as acute as some and I'm not really overlooked. There are far worse monstrosities in the area tbh.
This is kind of the situation I'm in myself.. My wife is a child-minder and at home most days. Washing machines, TV, cooker, dryer etc are in use most days. Then at some point we will have to think about a new car. This only came about as a friend of mine stated he gets all his electric free during the day. Why would anyone turn that down? but it seems I've missed the boat though.
Soldato
Having a property with Solar already fitted is only going to be more desirable as it means lower bills. In summer our electric bills are around £15pm. Half of that is standing charges. The only real costs for us is bulk LPG in winter.
Solar PV + Solar Thermal. Not too negative a cosmetic impact I don't think :
Having a property with Solar already fitted is only going to be more desirable as it means lower bills. In summer our electric bills are around £15pm. Half of that is standing charges. The only real costs for us is bulk LPG in winter.
Solar PV + Solar Thermal. Not too negative a cosmetic impact I don't think :
Just looks like another window tbh..
Having a property with Solar already fitted is only going to be more desirable as it means lower bills. In summer our electric bills are around £15pm. Half of that is standing charges. The only real costs for us is bulk LPG in winter.
Solar PV + Solar Thermal. Not too negative a cosmetic impact I don't think :
Oh I totally agree that in some circumstances the cosmetic impact is minimal.
However sometimes it looks awful - up and down Surrey you see slabs of PV panels all over ordinarily attractive houses and it does negatively affect saleability - lower bills or not.
With reference the above picture they do look discrete - primarily because its a grey slab house with a grey slab roof with grey panels. Looks pretty smart to be fair. Awfully minimal which is very fashionable.
Change that to a pretty red brick house, or similar on a road of well kept houses and the one with PV panels on it will stick out like an elephant up a drainpipe.
I've noticed that the panels are pinned very tightly to the roof. Our neighbours on the other handstands quite a long way so it's more noticeable as you can see the supports underneath.
Caporegime
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First of all the people complaining about FIT. A lot of companies took advantage of people who were vulnerable when it was around. My neighbour for example got her panels for free. But she doesn't get any FIT it all goes to the install company. They get the export rate too on top. Back then installs were like £10-£20K. you can get the same install these days for £5K. So she gets some free leccy but the company owns the panels and is leasing her roof from her which is a minefield when it comes to selling the home. If she ever wants to sell her home she has a buy out clause of £10K or something for a system which you could install today for £5K. Will she ever use £5K worth of free leccy? no chance maybe in 30 years or so.
So prices have come down. If they kept offering FIT then the governemnt would be even more broke than it is now. It had to come down but I don't see why they stopped it there should have been a middle ground. The people who got in at the start are laughing.
The companies who got in at the start are making like £2-£4K per year from FIT per install in the above scenario like my neighbour, they got something stupid like 40p per kwh at the start. Then export rate on top.
So nowadays 10 year breakeven is based on you using all of the produced leccy which you won't do unless you are at home during the day and a heavy user. It's more like 20 year breakeven but again this is based on leccy prices staying the same as they are today. As electricity gets more expensive your payback period decreases. So you have to factor that in too.
Battery storage again was only 5% VAT as part of your install 20% VAT for install after the fact. Payback period 20 years but at current prices only. The more expensive electricity gets the more attractive batteries become. However battery tech has huge flaws. Much like mobile phone batteries they have charge cycles and if in winter they don't get any charge it will kill their lifespan and capacity. Which will happen in the UK. So battery tech is next to useless at the moment and too expensive you can take that payback period and turn it into forever from 20.
Personally I'd say you want a minimum 4kw install anything smaller isn't worth it. If you are young, plan on living in the home for a long time 30+ years. Then solar panels will likely be worth it if you can get 4kw+ system on the roof and make use of the leccy during the day.
Anyone else likely not worth it in terms of payback period. Especially if you plan on moving house in 5-10 years too as most people do. Solar panels are a very niche market small installs never make their money back and they don't really work for the majority. The only people happy with theirs are those that are getting the stupidly high FIT payments.
Which is what you are all complaining about. You all want to get in on the gravy train now it's gone. The government put a plan in place to get more installs. People abused it. Government took it away.
To 99% of people solar panels will never be a good decision unless you know for sure electricity prices are going to keep going up at stupid rates. Every year products become more "efficient" but our population grows too. There has to be a balance somewhere or something gives. As more electric cars are put on the roads you can only assume electricity prices will go up. Supply and demand. But shouldn't there then be more people producing electricity and then prices coming down?
For all you people complaining about the governments plan. They don't need one. They have created a market that everyone is moving into. All oil and gas companies are investing in renewables and electric charging infrastructure, etc.
BP just bought charge master as an example. So they see the future will have no more forecourts pumping petrol but wires pumping electricity.
Orsted have europes biggest windfarm off the coast of the UK and currently building the worlds biggest windfarm off the coast of the UK. No governemnt initiatives, subsidies needed. All the big players have already planned for the future and are getting in on it now. Those that didn't will be crying in 10 years time.
Also the people saying panels look terrible and effect resale values. That is the old panels. The newer ones look fine and some even integrate into the roof if you are willing to pay the £3K extra for them. So you can't even tell someone has solar panels. Look at IKEA's partnership for more info. I can't see why anyone would be put off buying a home with panels on the roof. You don't use the roof for anything else. You can't see the roof from inside the home and you can't see it from the driveway or garden either unless both are extremely large. You can only see it from afar or at specific angles. It's a non issue. Of the 30 houses around me at least 6 have solar panels on them.
So prices have come down. If they kept offering FIT then the governemnt would be even more broke than it is now. It had to come down but I don't see why they stopped it there should have been a middle ground. The people who got in at the start are laughing.
The companies who got in at the start are making like £2-£4K per year from FIT per install in the above scenario like my neighbour, they got something stupid like 40p per kwh at the start. Then export rate on top.
So nowadays 10 year breakeven is based on you using all of the produced leccy which you won't do unless you are at home during the day and a heavy user. It's more like 20 year breakeven but again this is based on leccy prices staying the same as they are today. As electricity gets more expensive your payback period decreases. So you have to factor that in too.
Battery storage again was only 5% VAT as part of your install 20% VAT for install after the fact. Payback period 20 years but at current prices only. The more expensive electricity gets the more attractive batteries become. However battery tech has huge flaws. Much like mobile phone batteries they have charge cycles and if in winter they don't get any charge it will kill their lifespan and capacity. Which will happen in the UK. So battery tech is next to useless at the moment and too expensive you can take that payback period and turn it into forever from 20.
Personally I'd say you want a minimum 4kw install anything smaller isn't worth it. If you are young, plan on living in the home for a long time 30+ years. Then solar panels will likely be worth it if you can get 4kw+ system on the roof and make use of the leccy during the day.
Anyone else likely not worth it in terms of payback period. Especially if you plan on moving house in 5-10 years too as most people do. Solar panels are a very niche market small installs never make their money back and they don't really work for the majority. The only people happy with theirs are those that are getting the stupidly high FIT payments.
Which is what you are all complaining about. You all want to get in on the gravy train now it's gone. The government put a plan in place to get more installs. People abused it. Government took it away.
To 99% of people solar panels will never be a good decision unless you know for sure electricity prices are going to keep going up at stupid rates. Every year products become more "efficient" but our population grows too. There has to be a balance somewhere or something gives. As more electric cars are put on the roads you can only assume electricity prices will go up. Supply and demand. But shouldn't there then be more people producing electricity and then prices coming down?
For all you people complaining about the governments plan. They don't need one. They have created a market that everyone is moving into. All oil and gas companies are investing in renewables and electric charging infrastructure, etc.
BP just bought charge master as an example. So they see the future will have no more forecourts pumping petrol but wires pumping electricity.
Orsted have europes biggest windfarm off the coast of the UK and currently building the worlds biggest windfarm off the coast of the UK. No governemnt initiatives, subsidies needed. All the big players have already planned for the future and are getting in on it now. Those that didn't will be crying in 10 years time.
Also the people saying panels look terrible and effect resale values. That is the old panels. The newer ones look fine and some even integrate into the roof if you are willing to pay the £3K extra for them. So you can't even tell someone has solar panels. Look at IKEA's partnership for more info. I can't see why anyone would be put off buying a home with panels on the roof. You don't use the roof for anything else. You can't see the roof from inside the home and you can't see it from the driveway or garden either unless both are extremely large. You can only see it from afar or at specific angles. It's a non issue. Of the 30 houses around me at least 6 have solar panels on them.
Soldato
And there is the stupidity of the human race at it's finest. Clean, free (to some extent) energy, with the draw back being people can see it on your house and that makes it bad. Much better to have more gas power stations so people in can have a roof that looks the part.
Not a dig at you, just you are right about the attitude, some people need to start actually considering what is important. I'd rather see every house (than can support them) in the UK have solar panels fitted. Then we all benefit.
Caporegime
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They are a pigeons wet dream I hope they have got bird proofing installed. My neighbour asked me where I got mine installed as the pigeons were keeping them up all night.
Agreed! I’m glad you saw my point - I was referring to saleability - not the benefits of having them from an energy performance perspective.
I actually think air/ground source heat pumps are a better idea all round
Agreed, there has to be compromise somewhere along the line. I'd choose clean free energy over aesthetics any day and i'm surprised that new build don't have them as standard. it seems common sense to me.
A lot of it is to do with planning, section 106 agreements, cost of course and the implications of owned and leased panels on leaseholders in particular.
For most builders, the additional effort simply isn’t cost effective.
Some local authorities are more ‘pro’ energy efficiency than others and use it to their advantage when negotiating planing permissions with developers.
Soldato
What is staggering is the lack of action from the central government, and local councils on initiatives to support and grow clean and renewable energies full stop. Taxing fuels for example, why not just push VAT on Gas & Electric to 7.5% and use the extra 2.5% to pay for everything. After a decade of this everyone would end up paying less, as they'd be producing their own energy, or be well on the way to it. It's a bit controversial, as I do understand that some people are in fuel poverty, but they always will be if they have to keep paying for it while being low earners/pensioners etc.
That’s quite regressive.
If you tax fossil fuels more you just hurt the people that rent or can’t afford to spend £7k on a solar system.
Those that already have plenty of money to slosh around will not pay it.
Businesses get hurt by it too, there a loads that rent large warehouse type spaces/industrial units that would be ideal for solar. But they can’t because it’s rented, there is also no incentive for the landlords to do it either as they don’t pay the electric bill. Those would benefit the most as they will be using all of the power generated during their operating hours.
If you tax fossil fuels more you just hurt the people that rent or can’t afford to spend £7k on a solar system.
Those that already have plenty of money to slosh around will not pay it.
Businesses get hurt by it too, there a loads that rent large warehouse type spaces/industrial units that would be ideal for solar. But they can’t because it’s rented, there is also no incentive for the landlords to do it either as they don’t pay the electric bill. Those would benefit the most as they will be using all of the power generated during their operating hours.
Caporegime
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The miller homes being built near me almost all of them have solar panels integrated into the roof. So it looks like massive black tile. It's not sticking out on a beam or anything it's part of the roof.
It does cost you more to buy the home. I don't see any other builder nearby doing it. Cala and Robertson certainly don't offer it neither do any of the smaller cheaper builders.
the cost is negligible when adding them to a new home. What’s £5-6k on a £150k+ purchase? £7k or £8k for a larger system is practically nothing on a £300k+ house in the grand scheme of things.
There are other advantages too, it’s much cheaper to fit than retrospectively adding them and they can be better integrated into the buildings fabric as you mentioned, but not just externally internally too.
It’s a complete no brainier for new builds IMO.
There are other advantages too, it’s much cheaper to fit than retrospectively adding them and they can be better integrated into the buildings fabric as you mentioned, but not just externally internally too.
It’s a complete no brainier for new builds IMO.
I was recently looking a load of new builds up near preston/blackpool way (not to buy, but some of the showhomes i wanted to see weren't available locally), and a lot they were building up there were having panels built into the roof.
They almost looked something like this:
Caporegime
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https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-71516323.html
actually Barrat homes doing them it seems. the size of install looks pitiful though. lucky to be 1kw systems. which is nothing.
actually Barrat homes doing them it seems. the size of install looks pitiful though. lucky to be 1kw systems. which is nothing.
My parents are currently getting 54p per kwh generated best investment they’ve madeAnd people said I was mad for buying our system at 15p/kwh
That's a rather nice house that! But i agree, that's a rather meagre solar panel install when you consider the entire square-footage of that roof. Considering you'd typically have a 4/5 person family in a house like that, they should easily be pushing for a 6 or an 8 kWh install.