Solar panels?

[rainbowGuy]

Anyone know of a good company that provides solar panels - googling around gives lots of results but I am not 100% sure about authencity/reputation etc.

I recently had a quote from EON for 10k for 13 panels + 2 batteries..

 

[mmj_uk]

Just spend the £10k on more energy efficient devices for your home it'll probably have the same outcome and you'll have something useful to show for your £10k.

 

[Caracus2k]

The solar gravy train is over in the UK. The feed in tariff is closed to new applicants, having been slashed in value in recent years, and the returns from reduced electrical usage just aren't worth it and the enviromental benefit of using domestic solar panels in the UK is far from clear given the resources required to produce them in the first place and the cureent lack of a clear recycling strategy to deal with them at the end of their useful life.

If you have the space a ground source heat pump (especially if you have or intend to fit underfloor heating) is a potential viable option.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Anyone know of a good company that provides solar panels - googling around gives lots of results but I am not 100% sure about authencity/reputation etc.

I recently had a quote from EON for 10k for 13 panels + 2 batteries..

£10K to save £5K in electricity over 20 years is a bad deal.

the number of panels isn't what matters it's the KW of the system. how much leccy at 100% sunlight can those 13 panels produce.

Basically don't bother with solar. waste of time and money. had you asked the question many years ago then it would have been a definite yes when the feed in tariff was a ridiculous amount. you could make your return back within 3-4 years then you had 16-17 years of profit.

now you will only ever be in a deficit.

 

[krooton]

They do include them in many new builds though (ours has generated 46kW over a few weeks), but yeah the ROI for buying outright is not viable now.

 

[samcat]

Anyone know of a good company that provides solar panels - googling around gives lots of results but I am not 100% sure about authencity/reputation etc.

I recently had a quote from EON for 10k for 13 panels + 2 batteries..

I am going to guess that the batteries are what made that an expensive install... 13 panels would (probably) be around 3.6kW of installed panels, which is about the max under a G83 application (the normal domestic 16amp install). Larger requires a pre-install request to your local power network and they have the right to say no, or to require grid reinforcement work before they will carry it out.

https://www.comparemysolar.co.uk/solar-panel-calculator/
Draw your roof, provide some details and it gives indicative quotes there are then (nobody calls, no phone number/email needs to be provided). Works well for me (near Bristol) listing a couple of different suppliers.

 

[Rroff]

If you have the space a ground source heat pump (especially if you have or intend to fit underfloor heating) is a potential viable option.

Maths doesn't even look like it would be close to cost effective from a quick look at the figures - we are moving to a property with a fair amount of ground space and an antiquated oil fired boiler which needs replacing so I've looked at stuff like ground source heat pumps in passing.

 

[Caracus2k]

Maths doesn't even look like it would be close to cost effective from a quick look at the figures - we are moving to a property with a fair amount of ground space and an antiquated oil fired boiler which needs replacing so I've looked at stuff like ground source heat pumps in passing.

Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) payments for ground source are still fairly generous standing at 20.89p per Kw/h making it a consideration for some. Upfront costs are rather high however (around 12k for a typical installation)

 

[rainbowGuy]

cheers. i stupidly didnt do the solar before FIIT closed... well gutted.. but it strikes me silly that if i buy elec of eon/etc etc i have to pay them but if i produce elec and send it back to the grid i am effectively doing it for free..

 

[samcat]

cheers. i stupidly didnt do the solar before FIIT closed... well gutted.. but it strikes me silly that if i buy elec of eon/etc etc i have to pay them but if i produce elec and send it back to the grid i am effectively doing it for free..

Has your house got a hot water tank? If so, fit a solar diverter, then any power that would go to the grid can first be diverted into heating the hot water tank (via the immersion heater). Once that is fully heated then it goes out to the grid.
We do this, so the solar panels have reduced both our electric bill AND our gas bill.

 

[Caracus2k]

cheers. i stupidly didnt do the solar before FIIT closed... well gutted.. but it strikes me silly that if i buy elec of eon/etc etc i have to pay them but if i produce elec and send it back to the grid i am effectively doing it for free..

The problem in the UK for most solar installations is that they are generating electricity mostly at times the occupants are not using it (middle of the day) so to get the most out of a solar system you might have to include the cost of an on site battery storage solution aswell.

 

[Rroff]

Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) payments for ground source are still fairly generous standing at 20.89p per Kw/h making it a consideration for some. Upfront costs are rather high however (around 12k for a typical installation)

On an almost completely unrelated note many years back on here I was talking about the 100m sprint at school and the times we were getting as kids which some expressed some incredulity about due to proximity to world record times... I was measuring up the garden at the new place on google maps while looking again at ground source reading this thread and for some reason started comparing it in my mind to a known size empty area I knew of which was the old sports field at school - so idly measured up what used to be the 100m track at school... according to google maps it is somewhat short of 100m!

 

[rainbowGuy]

The problem in the UK for most solar installations is that they are generating electricity mostly at times the occupants are not using it (middle of the day) so to get the most out of a solar system you might have to include the cost of an on site battery storage solution aswell.

i was looking at an elec car so i can use the solar energy but bloody hell elec cars are quite expensive!

 

[Psycho Sonny]

i was looking at an elec car so i can use the solar energy but bloody hell elec cars are quite expensive!

do you only drive at night?

because you do realise to charge the electric car at home using solar it would need to be parked outside the house during daylight hours. the main peak being 11am to 2pm.

you don't know the numbers involved it seems for any of this. solar panels will never save you money regardless of what you use the electricity for. whether it be charging a car or heating a hot water tank or lighting a room.

the cost of the panels far outweighs the savings in electricity.

you do realise the panels don't last forever too right? they have a 10-20 year lifetime. where the inverter will need replacing after 10 years and the panels after 20?

so that will be another £1000 every 10 years time then another £6K every 20 years time. same goes for the battery storage it won't last forever. it will cost you another £6K every so often.

why not just pay for electricity instead of throwing tens of thousands of pounds away for nothing?

 

[Rroff]

you do realise the panels don't last forever too right? they have a 10-20 year lifetime. where the inverter will need replacing after 10 years and the panels after 20?

You won't generally have to replace solar panels after 20 years let alone 10 years unless you live somewhere with extreme cooling cycles or higher than normal exposure to corrosives. A modern good quality solar panel will last atleast 25 years in real world conditions and still be outputting atleast 80% usually around 90-92% of its original output upto 20 years and continue working well past that probably another 10-15 years.

My grandparents had their first set of 3 solar panels put in in I believe 2006 and those 3 are still working fine and no significant degradation to talk of and all indications they'll last another 10 years or more easily.

Inverters and battery storage will be much more costly ongoing consumables as they will need replacing every ~10 years.

 

[rainbowGuy]

do you only drive at night?


why not just pay for electricity instead of throwing tens of thousands of pounds away for nothing?

Thanks for all that info - i hadnt thought about it...

i just wanted to use solar panels to reduce my Carbon Footprint and also save some money... the prices are going to keep on going up so i thought maybe solar panels are a good way of avoiding that.. but when i got told about FIT being closed that did put me off a bit

 

[samcat]

You won't generally have to replace solar panels after 20 years let alone 10 years unless you live somewhere with extreme cooling cycles or higher than normal exposure to corrosives. A modern good quality solar panel will last atleast 25 years in real world conditions and still be outputting atleast 80% usually around 90-92% of its original output upto 20 years and continue working well past that probably another 10-15 years.

My grandparents had their first set of 3 solar panels put in in I believe 2006 and those 3 are still working fine and no significant degradation to talk of and all indications they'll last another 10 years or more easily.

Exactly this. Gradual degradation, with most panels being warranted for something like 80% of new output over 25 years.
For EG - Q-cells:

• Warranty
  • At least 98% of nominal power during first year. Thereafter max. 0.54% degradation per year.
  • At least 93.1 % of nominal power up to 10 years. At least 85% of nominal power up to 25 years.

Inverters and battery storage will be much more costly ongoing consumables as they will need replacing every ~10 years.

Batteries are going to get cheaper over time, but my maths they dont make sense atm.
Inverters are not hugely expensive, good ones brand new for a 3.6kW system can be had for £700 ish. LOTS cheaper second hand (£50-100).

If you can DIY then its quite possible to DIY most of this with second hand panels, inverter etc.. https://www.bimblesolar.com/
We went this route, mounted on a veranda at the back of the house (SW facing). Sparky signed off install, filled out and sent off G83 submission ourselves.

 

[Rroff]

Batteries are going to get cheaper over time, but my maths they dont make sense atm.

Problem as well battery life can be hugely varied - I've got li-ion packs that are in constant cyclic use some last barely their rated 500 cycles (about 2 years at this usage level) others will hang on 10 years before capacity and ability to hold their charge falls off a cliff.

This country does get enough solar energy throughout the whole year usually to make it work we desperately need a breakthrough in storage technology especially one that doesn't rely on production that creates pollution itself and/or use of toxic or limited availability chemicals, etc. and last a long time plus doesn't take up vast amounts of space.

 

[samcat]

This country does get enough solar energy throughout the whole year usually to make it work we desperately need a breakthrough in storage technology especially one that doesn't rely on production that creates pollution itself and/or use of toxic or limited availability chemicals, etc. and last a long time plus doesn't take up vast amounts of space.

Tidal barrages/pools look good, floating solar panels on them as well.. When excess production pump water in (doubly so at high tide, that extra head = a lot of extra energy at low tide!).
I think we are on the same page, need many and varied good low pollution solutions!

 

[Rroff]

Tidal barrages/pools look good, floating solar panels on them as well.. When excess production pump water in (doubly so at high tide, that extra head = a lot of extra energy at low tide!).
I think we are on the same page, need many and varied good low pollution solutions!

I really wish more localised hydro-generation for storage was possible - but for instance the amount of water required to run a single electric fire for several hours a day over the winter months would take up 17 Olympic sized swimming pools though solar could feasibly pump that amount of water to the head height required over the months with decent solar output - if I did the maths right even an 80watt pump can shift that much in around 260 days.