Solskjær... on borrowed time + board/ownership issues

Robbo

Robbo

Robbo

Man of Honour
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4 league wins and it's December.

We've been here before, but I think it's time for a change.

He's shown absolutely nothing that suggests he can rebuild the squad. Playing young players (and losing) isn't difficult.

He's starting to show a bit of an arrogance now and seems to think he's got free rein to do as he pleases with results not really affecting his job safety.

He had a fantastic start, but being honest, new managers often do.

Before people say it - I know Woodward is far more culpable than Ole. He's useless as well, but he won't be going anywhere, unfortunately. This however doesn't change the fact we've taken a complete gamble on a manager with virtually no top level experience, just because he was a popular player here.

He's spent what, £130m~ on the defence and it's no better than it was before. Yes he's had injuries, but we're barely any better with the likes of Pogba in the team anyway.

As for alternatives, Pochettino has a track record of making clubs he joins better, in terms of recruitment, style of play, and just in general. Ole doesn't have a record of this at a high level. There's a far better chance if given the opportunity to sign players for £30-90m a pop, Poch will produce a far superior team.

Time to go now. The next 2 games could seal his fate.
 
Is your squad any better then the teams around you? Arguably not. Maguire and AWB were poor signings and not the standard required imo for a United side but who signed them...Woodward or Ole?

Im not sure much changes if you sack Ole tbh.
 
omnomnom said:
Is your squad any better then the teams around you? Arguably not. Maguire and AWB were poor signings and not the standard required imo for a United side but who signed them...Woodward or Ole?

Im not sure much changes if you sack Ole tbh.
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That's another debate really, but I agree the squad isn't the best.

However, this is all about looking at what he's doing and trying to see if the ability is there to drag the club out of the slump it's in. I don't think he can do it.
 
What happens if you get rid, bring Poch in and next season you're still outside the top 4? Mourinho was sacked with you in 6th place.

Solskjaer might be out of his depth but you've sacked several better managers who were all doing better to reach this point. At what point will the club accept that it will take years of building/patience to get back to the top of table?
 
omnomnom said:
Is your squad any better then the teams around you? Arguably not. Maguire and AWB were poor signings and not the standard required imo for a United side but who signed them...Woodward or Ole?

Im not sure much changes if you sack Ole tbh.
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Nothing will change whilst the glaziers own us unfortunately so unless the fans stop going to matches well be stuck with this sort of tripe no matter who the manager is United need proper investment and decent owners
 
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alex h said:
Nothing will change whilst the glaziers own us unfortunately so unless the fans stop going to matches well be stuck with this sort of tripe no matter who the manager is United need proper investment and decent owners
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You've had plenty of investment, you have the world's most expensive defender, (one of?) the world's most expensive midfielders, a whoppingly priced right back to name a few.

Your problem is that no manager has had the time to build a squad in their image, meaning that you have a mishmash of players from Fergie, Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho, and Ole all of whom want to play different football and none of whom work together.

Ole isn't the man for the job, but you need to get someone in and give them at least 2 full seasons, with transfer windows, to fix it
 
manic111 said:
You've had plenty of investment, you have the world's most expensive defender, (one of?) the world's most expensive midfielders, a whoppingly priced right back to name a few.

Your problem is that no manager has had the time to build a squad in their image, meaning that you have a mishmash of players from Fergie, Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho, and Ole all of whom want to play different football and none of whom work together.

Ole isn't the man for the job, but you need to get someone in and give them at least 2 full seasons, with transfer windows, to fix it
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Whilst what some of what you say is correct not all is the investment in last transfer window was approx 60 mill same as year before And year before that when you work out sales of Luka Sanchez on loan smalling on loan Herrera and fellani left neither replaced other teams have had more invested in them than united and I agree ole is a disaster but get rid of owners you also get rid of ollie
 
There's very obvious issues with the Glazers but lack of investment in the side, in the last 5-6 years at least, is not one. Utd have outspent everybody, including City in that period both in terms of transfer spend and wages. Utd's problem is they've just spent terribly. How can a side spend near £200m on central midfielders in the last few years and end up with a midfield as bad as theirs? You spent far more than £60m in the summer too - Utd's accounts show a net capital outlay of over £150m (over £170m out and £17m in). Even if you assume Utd paid 100% of the fees for Maguire, James and Wan-Bissaka up front (which is unlikely) and there's a balance of £50m or so left to receive for Lukaku, that still leaves your net spend at over £100m.

Ole's out of his depth. You often see a new manager bounce and the effect at Utd was even greater because of how bad everything had become under Mourinho, that coupled with a very easy run of fixtures and more than a bit of good fortune and suddenly people forget that his CV was about as impressive as a 15 year old that's spent 100 hours on Football Manager. 12 months in and other than playing a few younger players, which if we're honest probably won't be good enough in the long-term, nothing has changed. There's no set formation or style of play and results are as bad as ever before.
 
BaZ87 said:
There's very obvious issues with the Glazers but lack of investment in the side, in the last 5-6 years at least, is not one. Utd have outspent everybody, including City in that period both in terms of transfer spend and wages. Utd's problem is they've just spent terribly. How can a side spend near £200m on central midfielders in the last few years and end up with a midfield as bad as theirs? You spent far more than £60m in the summer too - Utd's accounts show a net capital outlay of over £150m (over £170m out and £17m in). Even if you assume Utd paid 100% of the fees for Maguire, James and Wan-Bissaka up front (which is unlikely) and there's a balance of £50m or so left to receive for Lukaku, that still leaves your net spend at over £100m.

Ole's out of his depth. You often see a new manager bounce and the effect at Utd was even greater because of how bad everything had become under Mourinho, that coupled with a very easy run of fixtures and more than a bit of good fortune and suddenly people forget that his CV was about as impressive as a 15 year old that's spent 100 hours on Football Manager. 12 months in and other than playing a few younger players, which if we're honest probably won't be good enough in the long-term, nothing has changed. There's no set formation or style of play and results are as bad as ever before.
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Your wrong do the math bought in Maguire awb and james sold luka loan sanchez loan smalling herrera left on free so luka money paid for maguire leaving 50 mill awb and 17 mill for james total 67 mill outlay also sold fellani I agree about ollie though
 
alex h said:
Your wrong do the math bought in Maguire awb and james sold luka loan sanchez loan smalling herrera left on free so luka money paid for maguire leaving 50 mill awb and 17 mill for james total 67 mill outlay also sold fellani I agree about ollie though
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I'm not wrong. I've taken the figures directly from Utd's quarterly accounts. I'm very sceptical of how much of the reported add-ons for Lukaku you'll ever see (Inter had you over a barrel and given that they only paid £17m up front, it would also appear as if they have very little money) and of the £60m odd from him that's guaranteed, £5m went to Everton. Take £55m away from £80m odd for Maguire, £50m odd for Wan-Bissaka and whatever for James and you're not far off £100m, then you throw in agents payments and possibly even pay-offs to out going players (are Inter matching Lukaku's Utd wage for example?) and it's easy to reach £100m+.
 
May be with wages but on fees its not far off 60 mill I do agree a lot of money was wasted and don't forget payment for fellani
 
alex h said:
May be with wages but on fees its not far off 60 mill I do agree a lot of money was wasted and don't forget payment for fellani
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No, not with wages. These figures relate purely to buying and selling players. Even if you want to just use newspaper reports, you're reportedly getting £60m guaranteed for Lukaku, £5m of that goes to Everton. £80m Maguire + £50m Wan-Biasakka, + £17m James = £147m. £147m - £55m = £93m. Even if you want to include Fallaini in this season to massage the numbers, he was £6m odd (again taken from the accounts) so that's down to £87m.

We're going a bit OT here but you cannot use a lack of investment as an excuse anymore. Utd have spent 100s of millions more than Liverpool in the last 5 years on transfers and wages (more than anybody in the League, including City), and started from a stronger position. Utd's problem is a lack of strategy and planning. That's the reason why you've gone from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho to Ole. Utd just react to what's going on around them rather than working to a clear, thought through plan. Utd never set-out to appoint Ole long-term, in the same way that I don't believe they planned to go for Sanchez - they just reacted and thought it was a good idea at the time.

What's possibly the most worrying thing though, if I were a Utd fan anyway, is the idea that Utd are going to stick with Ole just to show people that they do have a plan and aren't a reactionary club. I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate but I heard on the radio earlier that Ole would have to win his next 3 games just to match the points total that Mourinho reached when he was sacked. Now I know Ole's playing a few kids and saying the right things, at least from the boards' pov, but it's remarkable just how safe his job appears right now. Things change quickly in football and a defeat tomorrow followed by a hiding from City on Saturday might put him under more pressure but it appears as if he's not going anywhere anytime soon.
 
alex h said:
Your wrong do the math bought in Maguire awb and james sold luka loan sanchez loan smalling herrera left on free so luka money paid for maguire leaving 50 mill awb and 17 mill for james total 67 mill outlay also sold fellani I agree about ollie though
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You only bought Lukaku a couple of seasons before selling him and made a loss though - I'm not sure how you can count that as money balancing the books?
 
BaZ87 said:
No, not with wages. These figures relate purely to buying and selling players. Even if you want to just use newspaper reports, you're reportedly getting £60m guaranteed for Lukaku, £5m of that goes to Everton. £80m Maguire + £50m Wan-Biasakka, + £17m James = £147m. £147m - £55m = £93m. Even if you want to include Fallaini in this season to massage the numbers, he was £6m odd (again taken from the accounts) so that's down to £87m.

We're going a bit OT here but you cannot use a lack of investment as an excuse anymore. Utd have spent 100s of millions more than Liverpool in the last 5 years on transfers and wages (more than anybody in the League, including City), and started from a stronger position. Utd's problem is a lack of strategy and planning. That's the reason why you've gone from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho to Ole. Utd just react to what's going on around them rather than working to a clear, thought through plan. Utd never set-out to appoint Ole long-term, in the same way that I don't believe they planned to go for Sanchez - they just reacted and thought it was a good idea at the time.

What's possibly the most worrying thing though, if I were a Utd fan anyway, is the idea that Utd are going to stick with Ole just to show people that they do have a plan and aren't a reactionary club. I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate but I heard on the radio earlier that Ole would have to win his next 3 games just to match the points total that Mourinho reached when he was sacked. Now I know Ole's playing a few kids and saying the right things, at least from the boards' pov, but it's remarkable just how safe his job appears right now. Things change quickly in football and a defeat tomorrow followed by a hiding from City on Saturday might put him under more pressure but it appears as if he's not going anywhere anytime soon.
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We change manager until we find one that actually shows some hint of a capability to improve the squad long term. Look at what Rogers has done at Leicester, look at what Klopp has done at Liverpool, Pep at City, Poch at Spurs. All of these managers have improved their team, they have an obvious tactical aptitude and ability to get the best from their players.

Ole has shown none of this. I don't care if we sit somewhere in the top 10 for a few years if we are building something. Ole isn't improving anything and I have no idea what another few years of this will do. We will end up with some slightly better players who still don't have a well coached side around them.
 
I am more than likely in the minority here but want to see Ole try to realize his dream. He had moments of brilliance and tactically has been good against big teams . Against the pool for example. Normally when we have all our players available we have a good game but just one injury can swing it into mediocrity. He has cleared out a lot of junk but in the process left us weak in back up but it had to happen to change the culture. I guess he wasn't planning on Pogba being out for so long either and was relying on his seniority. You can sack him but more than likely will be in a managerial merry go round for the next 10 years.

The difference between McTominay being in or out of the game tonight will be reason if we win or lose. Hopefully in January we can buy at least CM.

I do not think Poch is the answer either. He is like a poor man's Klopp. If I wanted a manager at United it would be Klopp himself.

Yes we have spent a lot of money but everything has United tax on it so players just cost so much more. Liverpool will get to see this soon!
 
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