Some advice needed on possible upgrade...

Vidar · 18 Sep 2017 at 22:30

So its been a good few years since I upgraded my PC, after a SSD failure several weeks ago and coming into a little bit of extra money I'm toying with the idea of upgrading. The question is what is the best path to take?

I'm currently rocking a 3930k, Asus x79 sabertooth motherboard, 8gb Samsung green ram and a KFA2 GTX 970 OC infinity black edition that's still solid but I'm mindful of its age, roughly 5 years and its possible limitations for future upgrades like a 1080 and going 4k.

My upgrade budget would be about £800 if I keep my existing hardware or roughly £1,100 to £1,300 (If that horrible auction sites sold prices are right)

So option 1: I upgrade what I've got, finally clock my CPU, see if I can get some more ram and focus on a new GPU and SSD maybe throwing in a new case if possible but am concerned about bottle necks.

Option 2: Get a new CPU, MOBO, RAM, Heatsink and GPU and SSD.

I don't need PSU, storage drive or a case really and have a monitor and all other peripherals and software.

So what would you do?

Plec · 18 Sep 2017 at 23:13

Option 1 great CPU - 16Gb of memory and GTX 1080/Ti if thinking of 4K and if you have the right cooler get the 3970K clocked to ~4.5GHz.

You may need to flash your BIOS to the latest release to improve PCI-E compatibility for the latest GFX cards.

Vidar · 19 Sep 2017 at 11:37

Plec said:
Option 1 great CPU - 16Gb of memory and GTX 1080/Ti if thinking of 4K and if you have the right cooler get the 3970K clocked to ~4.5GHz.

You may need to flash your BIOS to the latest release to improve PCI-E compatibility for the latest GFX cards.

Would I not get bottleneck from a 1080/ti on such an old chipset though?

DarkHorizon472 · 19 Sep 2017 at 11:55

I would wait to see how the new intel cpu's perform and think about it then.

Currently ryzen is a good value for money option unless you need very high single core cpu speeds. I went from i5-760 @ 3.8 Ghz to a ryzen 1700 and the difference is huge.

orbitalwalsh · 19 Sep 2017 at 13:05

3rd gen isn;t as bad as 1st gen and 2nd gen- i had about 15fps min bottlenecking running i7 860@4Ghz.

Higher the res the less work load on the core, but the 1st gen and 2nd were quiet a step back from current generations - but DX12 did help them massively although i dont think your core needs the advantages

I would go for the Ti upgrade

or 1080 and a damn good screen to take advantage if you already havent got G-sync

tired to keep it in budget and future proof. at least the screen should last 7+ years but does go over with a GTX 1080

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 WindfForce 8192MB GDDR5X PCI-Express Graphics Card (GV-N1080WF3OC-8GD)= £499.99
1 x AOC AGON AG241QG 24" 2560 x 1440 TN G-Sync 165Hz Widescreen LED Multimedia Monitor - Black/Red= £449.99

Total: £961.68
(includes shipping: £11.70)

or for fun a vega ryzen build

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 1700 3.70GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail= £278.99
1 x Gigabyte GA-AB350-Gaming 3 AMD B350 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £101.99
1 x PowerColor Radeon RX VEGA 56 8GB HBM2 PCI-Express Graphics Card - Stand Alone= £389.99
1 x Team Group Dark Pro "8Pack Edition" 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black/= £188.99
1 x Crucial MX300 525GB SSD SATA 6Gbps 3D Nand 7mm Solid State Drive (CT525MX300SSD1)= £149.99
1 x be quiet! Dark Rock Advanced CPU Cooler= £54.95
1 x be quiet AM4 Cooler Bracket= £3.95

Total: £1,179.95
(includes shipping: £11.10)

Plec · 19 Sep 2017 at 13:11

Vidar said:
Would I not get bottleneck from a 1080/ti on such an old chipset though?

With a clocked 3930K @ 4.5GHz 6 cores/12 threads i would have thought it would be do a very good job at 4K coupled with a GTX 1080/Ti and 16Gb of memory - especially as less strain on the CPU at 4K.

It would certainly cope admirably while you wait for the dust to settle with Coffee Lake and perhaps even up to Zen 2. You would obviously be able to transfer the 1080/Ti to your next build - the only loss being the purchase of 16Gb of memory (unless you risked another 2 stick of 8Gb - which may have impact on your desired clock).

EDIT: Ninja'd by @orbitalwalsh

orbitalwalsh · 19 Sep 2017 at 13:14

Plec said:
With a clocked 3970K @ 4.5GHz 6 cores/12 threads i would have thought it would be do a very good job at 4K coupled with a GTX 1080/Ti and 16Gb of memory - especially as less strain on the CPU at 4K.

It would certainly cope admirably while you wait for the dust to settle with Coffee Lake and perhaps even up to Zen 2. You would obviously be able to transfer the 1080/Ti to your next build - the only loss being the purchase of 16Gb of memory (unless you risked another 2 stick of 8Gb - which may have impact on your desired clock).

EDIT: Ninja'd by @orbitalwalsh

didnt realise it was 6/12 thread core. yeah- keep it - if coffee lake offers you 30% better performance then fair enough but dont think it will

Plec · 19 Sep 2017 at 13:44

orbitalwalsh said:
didnt realise it was 6/12 thread core. yeah- keep it - if coffee lake offers you 30% better performance then fair enough but dont think it will

It's a stonking CPU - with great clocking potential.

Vidar · 19 Sep 2017 at 19:14

Thank you guys for taking the time to get back to me, I really appreciate it. I'll keep my current CPU and motherboard then and only upgrade those when something else comes out that warrants it.

This means I can do things more gradually to, I'm going to hold onto my current monitor for the time being as I'll also be running a cable to my 4k tv for most gaming for the time being. So am going to move my system out of my old Lian Li z95 I think, its really too big and with the front I/O panel being borked and that it could use all the stock fans replacing, they've gotten seriously loud and are difficult to clean etc, its going to swallow about £130 to sort so I may as well. Pity as it's all aluminium but can maybe list it on members market.

Okay so a few questions...

What RAM should I go for?

What settings do I need to change to overclock my CPU on my X79 Sabertooth board? (Overclocking scares me for some reason)

Is an M.2 SSD compatible with my board? Either way what SSD would you recommend?

And what cases would you guys recommend?

Once I've got these pieces sorted and the old ones sold I'll either go 1080 or Vega.

Vidar · 19 Sep 2017 at 22:29

Another probably dumb question I need to ask; should I keep my current Corsair AIO and replace the fans if possible or should I get a different cooler? I don't know the model number but it is a single 120mm rad design.

There seem to be plenty compatible still with the 2011 chipset on Overclockers but I have no idea what to go for... haven't kept upto date with hardware really for some time.

Vidar · 20 Sep 2017 at 15:14

Okay so I've just realised that I already have 16gb of Samsung Green 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C11 1600MHz 30nm Dual Channel Kit so am wondering if its still worth upgrading this to a faster kit or leaving it as is?

Also would it be worth jumping to 32gb if I did upgrade the ram?

Plec · 20 Sep 2017 at 15:38

Replying on phone so forgive typos - I'm hopeless with swipe.

The 1866 memory is cheaper than the 1600 so I would go with the cheaper option as it's a win-win, especially for an older system.

If the AIO is in good working order, personally, I wouldn't spend anymore on that PC if it's a place holder until you upgrade. I would stick with your present cooler and try for a moderate clock of 4Gzhz (more realistic - as it's a lottery). Unless you're buying your new case now, which will house your eventual new system then I perhaps pick a cooler that would suit your future needs/preferences (quality air being an option if after quieter cooling with less points of failure).

What size case are you after and budget? Is silence key, windowed etc?

You can get an m.2. adapter card but not sure you would be able to boot from it without a modded BIOS. You would need to look into this - perhaps a dedicated post in storage forum. Although, a standard quality SSD would see virtually the same performance in real world usage. Samsung is the go to brand in either format - but if it's a gaming PC the expense of the M.2. isn't needed plus you can get almost double the capacity for the same price when getting a standard SSD.

Plec · 20 Sep 2017 at 15:50

Vidar said:
Okay so I've just realised that I already have 16gb of Samsung Green 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C11 1600MHz 30nm Dual Channel Kit so am wondering if its still worth upgrading this to a faster kit or leaving it as is?

Also would it be worth jumping to 32gb if I did upgrade the ram?

No, no need at all for 32Gb for a gaming PC - nor faster frequency set as the gains would be minimal for large outlay - plus, EOL.

It's worked out well - as your upgrades can all be moved to on to your next build - no wasted expense on expensive DDR3 that you couldn't use.

Vidar · 20 Sep 2017 at 17:11

Thank you for all your help Plec I really appreciate it...

There's nothing glaringly wrong with my current AIO except for the noise of it, and my initial plan was to simply replace the fans, I've just been reading that the 120mm AIO coolers aren't really very efficient and with it being 5 years old I figured it was time to change it out, especially if I can reuse it in the future.

I am planning on buying a new case within the next month or so and migrating things over, I've loved my Lian Li z97 but its to big and difficult to clean, needs the fans replacing on it and the front I/O panel is borked. I plan on using this case through a future build. My main concern is noise and really love the dark base 900 pro but ideally want something a bit smaller. Glass would be nice but not essential, I'm happy to spend around £200 but will spend a bit more for the right case. I'm a firm believer in future proofing as much as possible.

I've just read up and I would need to modify my bios, I'm not comfortable doing stuff like that... I'm nervous about overclocking, so for now I'll stick with a standard SSD.

Plec · 20 Sep 2017 at 18:29

Vidar said:
Thank you for all your help Plec I really appreciate it...

No worries

Vidar said:
There's nothing glaringly wrong with my current AIO except for the noise of it, and my initial plan was to simply replace the fans, I've just been reading that the 120mm AIO coolers aren't really very efficient and with it being 5 years old I figured it was time to change it out, especially if I can reuse it in the future.

That's lasted well - as long as none of the noise is pump noise(?) and your temps are OK (i.e. less liquid within AIO) - you could invest in some fans but there's every chance it's on borrowed time. Personally, i would use it for your interim upgrade and then perhaps swap it out for quality air cooler when you upgrade your CPU as silence is key.

Vidar said:
I am planning on buying a new case within the next month or so and migrating things over, I've loved my Lian Li z97 but its to big and difficult to clean, needs the fans replacing on it and the front I/O panel is borked. I plan on using this case through a future build. My main concern is noise and really love the dark base 900 pro but ideally want something a bit smaller. Glass would be nice but not essential, I'm happy to spend around £200 but will spend a bit more for the right case. I'm a firm believer in future proofing as much as possible.

Nice case both: your present and your favoured choice.

I've listed some cases for you to browse to get an idea of styles and a couple of dedicated silent cases (all midi-tower) - i didn't include any be-quiet as assumed you're familiar with them. But, TBH, if you have a decent air cooler, PSU you'll find your PC to be very quiet even with a 1080 (when not gaming) as the fans don;t spin up on the GX card unless it passes 60 Degrees (effectively passive unless stressed) and it's the same for quality modern PSUs. And if you got the Gigabyte Aorus you would be impressed how quiet these run under stress (read some reviews - clever fan design)

For preferred style purposes - unless you really like one:

My basket at Overclockers UK:

1 x In-Win 303 Midi Tower Case & Aurora RGB Fans Bundle - Black= £149.99
1 x Corsair Carbide 400C Midi Tower Gaming Case - Black Window (CC-9011081-WW)= £99.95
1 x Corsair Carbide 400Q V2 Silent Midi Tower Gaming Case - Black (CC-9011100-WW)= £99.95
1 x Lian Li PC-O11WXC Midi Tower - Black Window= £209.99
1 x Lian-Li PC-J60WX Midi Tower Case - Black Window= £189.95

Vidar said:
I've just read up and I would need to modify my bios, I'm not comfortable doing stuff like that... I'm nervous about overclocking, so for now I'll stick with a standard SSD.

I thought you might have to get a modded BIOS - so totally understand. Plus, the M.2. really is a luxury for a gaming machine - no big performance gain over a quality SSD for a gaming machine.

Don't be nervous about overclocking - if you limit it ti 3.8/4GHz it should be an simple and painless process.

Vidar · 20 Sep 2017 at 19:48

That In win is porn except for that garish front panel logo, you've given me some more food for thought though there so thank you. Yeah I love quality cases and prefer an understated look when they're going to be on display.

To be honest the pump noise may or may not be an issue I can't tell over the noise of the stock fans now... To be honest I think I'll replace the AIO as if my finances continue to improve I may keep this as a back up system and build a new one later. I do prefer AIO coolers just as they don't get in the way as much as big air, which would you recommend?

Plec · 20 Sep 2017 at 21:28

Vidar said:
That In win is porn except for that garish front panel logo, you've given me some more food for thought though there so thank you. Yeah I love quality cases and prefer an understated look when they're going to be on display.

You sound like you have the same taste in cases as myself. Totally agree with the In win logo - it must be a fairly common opinion divider too, so surprised they haven't muted it's design a little...

However, look at this - this is my next case:

This is their site - Clicky

@orbitalwalsh owns one - and happens to be very friendly and clued up forum member - if you like what you see, he can give you hands on evaluations. (Be careful though - he'll have you spending all your money on a full upgrade at the same time, plus 2 x M.2.s @orbitalwalsh

)

Vidar said:
To be honest the pump noise may or may not be an issue I can't tell over the noise of the stock fans now... To be honest I think I'll replace the AIO as if my finances continue to improve I may keep this as a back up system and build a new one later. I do prefer AIO coolers just as they don't get in the way as much as big air, which would you recommend?

I'm biased so may not be the best person to ask. That said i see of lot of me in your responses regarding silence, minimalist look, clean lines etc...

I tried AIOs - i still fit them in friends who want them - but i found them noisy compared to quality air (pump noise, fans venting at top so top of case open letting noise escape). Plus there are more points of failure compared to a quality air cooler.

That said - they do the job extremely well, and they can look stunning NZXT Kraken being a good example - and would turn heads in the above case. Plus with tweaking can be made very quiet - but pricey when a £60 air cooler will do the same.

If silence is paramount then quality air. But if you don't mind compromising a bit of noise and want a cool looking AIO showing through your windows case - then i totally get that too (and agreed they are great space savers around the CPU). I'm very much each to their own - no right or wrongs here as long as you still get the desired results from your PC.

orbitalwalsh · 20 Sep 2017 at 21:43

Will be able to link tomorrow. The Jonsbo for me is the new Silverstone/Lian Li but wallet friendly! UMX4 is such a nice compact stunning case. Downsides, dark glass you RGB lighting will look good if down right, need just to pick out parts not that whole sum .
It only takes 27mm 240 AIO or rads at the top

@Plec everyone needs a Ti in their life, even if it's last gen

Vidar · 20 Sep 2017 at 21:49

Oh be still my beating heart... those cases are gorgeous, @orbitalwalsh where do you buy them and how much are we talking about?

What's it like to build in?

Could you guys recommend the best air cooler or AIO that would work with this case?

orbitalwalsh · 21 Sep 2017 at 08:49

There is one place in the UK and the other Germany. Just type Jonsbo UMX4 into Google and it will pop up

I found out about the AIO clearance issue over at overclock.net as well as first had. I used a bequiet silent loop and swapped out the rad for an EK 26mm slim one .

If you fancy going cheap full custom then this should work. Mount the pump on the bottom and buy two fans down there

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ek-w...-performance-water-cooling-kit-wc-9ew-ek.html

Or

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/id-c...-in-one-cpu-water-cooler-240mm-hs-008-id.html

Cheap and 27mm thick