Some advice please - Mini Hatch/Countryman

[TW]Fox said:
Nobody pays list price for a Mini unless they are daft.
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I think you missed the point. The Absolute is irrelevant to the depreciation. the % mini is applying is what's relevant. If everyone gets a discount on the purchase price, that will simply be reflected in the residuals but the % depreciation is the same.

The purchase price is irrelevant - what matters is purchase price less residual value. A £30k car thats worth £20k in 3 years time is cheaper than a £20k car thats worth £5k in 3 years time, for example, despite being more expensive in terms of purchase price.
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You're comparing apples to pears. I stated that it can be assumed most cars will depreciate by 50% in 3 years as evidenced by the PCP residuals and pretty much every used car i've ever searched for. Your example is using a different depreciation scale for cars A and B which is totally off point.

I have never looked into the purchase of a Countryman but you don't need a minimum of £25k for a Mini hatch. The Cooper starts at £15k new, a high specification example is £18-19k after negotiations, for a brand new car. Used you can expect to pay £15-16k for a decent enough year old car. There are many overpriced used ones - so don't buy them.
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I think you're out of touch mate - go spec up a mid range hatch or countryman and see what the quote is. Standard + Pepper Pack + Auto + Cooper = 23k. Chilli = 25.5k, Cooper S = 28k
Countryman Cooper S + chilli + auto = 31k. Mini hiked up the prices to insane levels.


This hasn't been my experience but frankly even if it was, Mini pick up the tab.

Build quality inside is a bit suspect, I agree with that. It's one area where the new model is a major improvement.

Like I said, we've run it from 1 year to 5 years old and in that time have lost about £6000 in depreciation, spend £800 on two years warranty and paid 60 quid for a brake fluid change. It's cost £120 a year to tax, has averaged 45mpg and only needed one new set of tyres.

For what was a year old 'hipster' car IMHO that's incredibly reasonable motoring costs. I can't think of many cheaper ways of covering 45k miles in a nearly new car. Certainly I doubt a Fiesta or a Corsa would have been cheaper - likely more expensive by virtue of the higher depreciation.
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You either got it extremely cheap relative to market or your value estimation is way off. You can't be the only mini owner to defy market depreciation.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Cactus - it's a decent car. However it's not as good as the Mini and neither should it be, it's in a different market segment and costs much less to buy.
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The cactus' interior is absolutely terrible - it's like a Van or something. But, having driven the new EAT6 with the turbo petrol I can honestly say that I couldn't fault it other than for its interior and even more so when I look at the new price which can be had for circa 16k OTR top spec. That's pretty remarkable for a car with all the bells and whistles one needs, great looks, amazing MPG, a full auto torque converter, media pack and reversing cam included as standard (mini, hello?) and tons more space inside and in the boot. It's on par with the Cooper for power despite being 1.5/1.6 and costs about 60% more spec'd up and seems to have a reliability issue.

So i would actually argue it's better than the Mini and its only a fraction larger (4.1m vs 3.95m)
 
Thanks a lot all - this was exactly what I needed to convince myself that neither hatchback nor countryman make sense from a price perspective. Maybe if if I got either on a really good lease deal they might but straight up cash or finance purchase just makes no sense which comforts me because I thought I was missing something not being able to justify the price to myself. Truth be told, it's more than just price, it's a question of value for money which I don't feel Mini offers at this stage - sales rep said I could expect a maximum disount of £2k or 7% and that's final so if i wasnt interested then I'd have to move on.

In truth I don't feel either car are worth more than 15k. I might be unrealistic but thats what I feel and its why i struggled to convince myself to accept the price is what it is. The quotes I had for a hatch Cooper S JCW were £30,400 list price and £28,700 Cooper S Media. Countryman even more.

I think I need to move on and find something else
 
tek2k said:
I think you missed the point. The Absolute is irrelevant to the depreciation. the % mini is applying is what's relevant. If everyone gets a discount on the purchase price, that will simply be reflected in the residuals but the % depreciation is the same.
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Residual value is defined mostly by supply and demand on the used market. Whilst the price of a new car will play into this, it isn't the only factor and it isn't true to say that any discount means the depreciation percentage stays the same. Remember not everyone can or does get a discount on the list price.

You're comparing apples to pears. I stated that it can be assumed most cars will depreciate by 50% in 3 years as evidenced by the PCP residuals and pretty much every used car i've ever searched for. Your example is using a different depreciation scale for cars A and B which is totally off point.
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The mistake you are making is assuming every single car on the market has the same depreciation curve. This is absolutely not the case!


I think you're out of touch mate - go spec up a mid range hatch or countryman and see what the quote is. Standard + Pepper Pack + Auto + Cooper = 23k. Chilli = 25.5k, Cooper S = 28k
Countryman Cooper S + chilli + auto = 31k. Mini hiked up the prices to insane levels.
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I'm not out of touch, I specced up a Cooper only last month and negotiated a decent discount - it came to just under £19k, not £23k. At first glance the list price is high but you don't pay the list price.

I've no experience of Countryman pricing.


You either got it extremely cheap relative to market or your value estimation is way off. You can't be the only mini owner to defy market depreciation.
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Nobody 'defies' depreciation - the car has depreciated. It's just depreciated less than other comparable cars in its class, thats all.

The cactus' interior is absolutely terrible - it's like a Van or something. But, having driven the new EAT6 with the turbo petrol I can honestly say that I couldn't fault it other than for its interior and even more so when I look at the new price which can be had for circa 16k OTR top spec. That's pretty remarkable for a car with all the bells and whistles one needs, great looks, amazing MPG, a full auto torque converter, media pack and reversing cam included as standard (mini, hello?) and tons more space inside and in the boot. It's on par with the Cooper for power despite being 1.5/1.6 and costs about 60% more spec'd up and seems to have a reliability issue.
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But thats like saying the Nissan Qashqai is better than a BMW X3 because it's the same size, has more kit and costs less. The Cactus and the Mini are simply not aimed at the same market.
 
For the record, this is the quote I had


Code Description Price VAT Total

Vehicle

XS72 F55 MINI Cooper S 5dr Hatch 16,150.00 3,230.00 19,380.00

B71 Moonwalk Grey 0.00 0.00 0.00

NEE1 Leather Cross Punch Carbon Black/Carbon Black 491.67 98.33 590.00

Sub Total 16,641.67 3,328.33 19,970.00


Options

7L5 Media Pack XL 1,166.67 233.33 1,400.00

249 Multi-function controls for s'wheel

2XB MINI Yours Sport leather steering wheel 87.50 17.50 105.00

609 MINI Navigation System XL

6NE Enhanced Bluetooth with USB audio

6NT MINI Connected XL

7Y2 Chili Pack 2,000.00 400.00 2,400.00

2F1 17" Cosmos Spoke alloy wheels in silver

423 Floor mats

450 Passenger seat height adjustment

493 Storage compartment pack

4V9 MINI Excitement Pack

4VA MINI Driving Modes

521 Rain sensor with auto. headlight activation

534 Air conditioning, dual-zone automatic

563 Interior Lights Pack(Orange)

5A1 LED fog lights

5A2 LED headlights and daytime running lights

223 Variable Damper Control 312.50 62.50 375.00

258 Run-flat tyres 116.67 23.33 140.00

2TB Sport automatic transmission 1,212.50 242.50 1,455.00

313 Electric folding exterior mirrors 125.00 25.00 150.00

359 Heated front windscreen 91.67 18.33 110.00

383 Roof and mirrors caps in black 0.00 0.00 0.00

402 Panoramic electric glass sunroof 562.50 112.50 675.00

473 Front centre armrest 0.00 0.00 0.00

494 Seat heating for driver and front passenger 179.17 35.83 215.00

4BD Interior Trim Piano Black 62.50 12.50 75.00

507 Park Distance Control, rear 216.67 43.33 260.00

544 Cruise control with brake function 0.00 0.00 0.00

6NM MINI Connected 0.00 0.00 0.00

Sub Total 6,133.35 1,226.65 7,360.00


Standard Options

2VG Performance Control

302 Alarm and immobiliser (Thatcham CAT 1)

470 Front passenger ISOFIX and airbag de-activation switch

481 Sport seats, front

4C1 Colour Line - Carbon Black

550 On-board computer

654 DAB digital tuner

6AC Intelligent emergency calling (E-call)

6AE MINI TeleServices

785 White indicators

Total 22,775.02 4,554.98 27,330.00


Other Items

@XDEL Delivery 412.50 82.50 495.00

FRF First Registration Fee 55.00 0.00 55.00

Autoglym 332.50 66.50 399.00

Fuel 33.33 6.67 40.00

Plates 20.83 4.17 25.00

Road Tax 166.67 33.33 200.00

TLC 249.17 49.83 299.00

Sub Total 1,270.00 243.00 1,513.00

Total Purchase Price 24,045.02 4,797.98 28,843.02


That's a pretty good spec but still quite middle of the road I'd say. I was offered 1.6k deposit contribution + 400 or 2k off the list price for cash purchase and that's it. Are you saying one should be able to get a much higher discount on this?
 
Psycho Sonny said:
£28K on a mini - lmao.

Do yourself a favour and buy a 3 year old 1 series or x1 depending on if you want a hatch or a small suv
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A 3 year old X1 is really not a very good car but a year or 18 month old current X1 is a good suggestion.

It's basically the Mini in a more refined body with a better interior.
 
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