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some gcard basic info pls

teknix

teknix

teknix

Associate
Joined
1 May 2007
Posts
16
hello :)

all this ati vs nvidia malarkee has my head spinning, then theres crossfire to insert into the equation, then i add the fact that my mobo has 4 pci-e slots, and of course i have a more serious underlying problem ... i dont have a clue about graphics cards :confused:

please will someone be kind enough and answer a few questions for me so i can make a more educated decision so i can finally get round to buying ?

first of all heres some specs of the pc in question (ive had most of the components for 2 months, they still boxed in corner of room :( )

core2duo e6600
asus p5w64 ws pro mobo http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-180-AS&tool=3 http://uk.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=248&l4=0&model=1341&modelmenu=1
2gb crucial ballistix pc2-6400
coolermaster 850w real power pro (with 4 pci-e plugs)
2tb of hds
2x19 inch monitors to start with (unpurchased, eventually im wanting to mod em and make 1 massive 3x2x19inch or 2x2x19inch display.. if its possible)
watercooling system (unpurchased)
modded case and pretty flashy things

secondly lemme explain what ill be using machine for ... ill be using my pc for both gaming (need for speed, first person shooters etc) and for music production. for gaming id like to be able to use my tft mod as 1 huge screen (if possible) and for music production id like to be able to use tft mod as 'x' number of individual screens (at max resolution) so i can drag windows from my music app onto another screen to free up some room.

1. im my mobo manual it states ... "This motherboard supports 4 pci express cards that comply with the pci express specifications. The cards run at x8, x8, x4, x8 or at x16, x0, x4, x0 mode"

a. what does this mean please ?
b. what are the advantages & disadvantages of running 'x' amount of cards in SLi as opposed to 'x' number of cards individually ?
c. performance wise, which is the best setup ?
d. pls tell me if im peeing into the wind with this 1 but ... will running 4x256mb gcards in either SLi or individually out perform say 2x320mb'ers in same modes ?
e. a shot in the dark question, wrong forum section but ill give it an airing anyway :) .. if i run 4 gcards, do u reakon ill have enough room to be able to stick some waterblocks on them ? it looks awfuly tight in there.

2. i realise that if u had a gcard with 2 dvi slots u can run 2 19inch tfts, 4 dvi slots = 4 monitors etc, but after reading thru a couple of threads in here, it seems this doesnt apply for gaming, 1 monitor only.

a. did i understand this correctly ?
b. if so will running multiple cards in SLi mode fix this ?
c. if its workable will i be able to get the game playing on the massive 3x2 or 2x2 monitor system im wanting to build ?
d. has anyone ever come across a similar setup (which they can link me to) or can u reccomend a decent gcard combo that will do this ? i got round about £400 set aside for cards and the reccomended vendors list at asus is whey outta date.
e. am i in dreamland, sat slowly drowning with my face firmly planted in my cornflakes regarding massive screen idea ?

many many thx in advance and im sorry about the number of questions ive asked, my head has been clattered for weeks trying to sort this 1 for myself :)
 
I'll have a bash at answering as many of your questions as possible :)

1)
a) There are various configurations for the PCI-E slots, you can distribute the bandwidth (think of it like opening up and closing water valves) differently. The first mode is for multiple graphics cards, or a number of PCI-E cards. The second is for a single graphics card.

b) Advantage of running CrossFire / SLI is that you can increase your framerates dramatically. If you don't have cards compatible with CF/SLI then you only get the advantage of more monitors. CF and SLI both support up to 4 monitors, you just disable CF/SLI. You can enable/disable without rebooting as long as there are no applications using D3D or OGL at the time. Steam and Paint Shop Pro both use Direct3D when running for example, so they would have to be closed first.

c) CrossFire and SLI are very fast.

d) You can only run TWO graphics cards at once in CF/SLI. The memory doesn't stack, so 256MB per card means 256MB usable. This is because each card needs its own copy of textures and its own framebuffer - its a performance thing.

e) Don't get 4 graphics cards. If you need more than 4 monitors, you probably want to start looking at professional workstations.

2)

a) Pretty much. If you disable CrossFire/SLI you can run 4 monitors, and run a game in one of them. The other 3 will remain active. If you enable CF/SLI then only one monitor (your primary) will be active.

b) See answer to a.

c) You can stretch games that use OpenGL over multiple monitors. Its not recommended at all to use multiple monitors for games however, since precious few have even remote support for it. The Parhelia had triple monitor support and the odd game worked for it. One monitor for games I'm afraid, so its worth getting a nice big primary monitor.

d) Since you have an Intel motherboard, if you want dual graphics cards linked for games - you'll have to get two ATI graphics cards. Ideally you want something like an X1950 Pro or 2900XT since both use an internal link rather than an external dongle. The external dongle is unweildy, doesn't scale as well (imo) and reduces your potential number of monitors to 3 (rather than 4). If you don't care about SLI / CrossFire and just want lots of monitor outputs, and graphics cards will do as long as they're both from NV or both from ATI.

e) Can't really have all the monitors linked like a video wall :\ But having multiple monitors still really, really helps productivity.

Hope this helps :)
 
spb251272 said:
Unless you get the Matrox triple head thing ;)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust that thing as far as I can throw it :p Very few games support an aspect that wide, and its all VGA with small screens. You have to have that dodgy Matrox software too, and if its anything like the stuff with the Parhelia I wouldn't let it near my PC :p
 
I agree, I wouldn't use it either, but I just wanted to point out that it is possible ;) . One big monitor would be a better solution for gaming. It sounds like teknix has been watching pimp my ride - where they put multiple monitors together in cars :D
 
hey everyone :)

thx for the all replies to my questions, its much appreciated :)

well .. my bubble is well and truelly popped now hehe, i was really looking forward to playing games on that big monitor array .. its a shame about the matrox not being upto scratch, my hopes were briefly rekindled again for a minute.

boogle, u mentioned that adding 2x256 wont make a 512, i genuinely thought id get the power of a 512 by combining the 2. top tippage indeed mr. b

so i guess that leaves me with a totally new dillema now lol, ive had a bit of a ponder and heres what ive come up with. whaddya reakons ?

i read that the 1gb cards are a few months off (xmasish), when they're eventally unleashed the prices of the 640's and the 768's are inevitibly gonna be coming down. so to start with im thinking of going for a single 640 or 768 and and adding a second (CF/SLi mode) when the prices start to fall.

the BFG's unlimited warrenty has caught my eye somewhat, so have all the prices as well, but spb251272 gave me an excellent fund raising idea when he mentioned pimp my ride, i might just have to take your words litterally and pimp my ride to pay for a 768, god only knows how break the news to her :D

monitor wise, 2 is a definate minimum requirement from the word go, i really need a 2nd monitor for my music production. is it possible to run 2 different sized tfts from 1 gcard ? say a 24 inch as a main (gaming) monitor and a 19incher as a slave/secondary screen. this would work wouldnt it ?

p.s. i dont have any cornflakes stuck to my face still do i ? hehe

edit :

forgot to ask ... what about the new directx10 jobbies, will they work on xp64bit or are they just vista only?
 
Last edited:
1GB isn't too far off, the R2900XTs with 1GB should be out August time, if not sooner.

However, video memory isn't as important with DX10 as it was with previous DX versions. Memory virtualisation has been added, think of it like virtual memory in Windows, where if there isn't enough system memory, the HD is used. In this case if there isn't enough video memory, it uses system memory. This isn't as bad as it sounds - in fact its a major feature. Now developers can use massive textures dramatically increasing image quality. Currently all textures for the entire level (almost) have to fit entirely in video memory, with DX10 only the textures for the local area need fit in video memory. Think HyperMemory / Turbocache for high end graphics cards. Of course more video memory is never a bad thing unless the GPU itself is slow.

Unfortunately this new feature means we'll be needing a lot more system memory, which in turn means you'll be wanting 64bit sooner than you think.

You can use any size monitors you like, it doesn't matter. I use 3 monitors with the resolutions 1600x1200, 1280x1024, 1440x900, and on occasion I hook up my projector which is 1280x720. It works fine.

DX10 is Vista-only, however DX10 cards run fine in XP, but you'll only ever be able to run games in DX9 mode. Games will continue to support DX9 until 2010-2012, by which time Vista can be considered a 'minimum requirement' (and with it DX10).

Oh yeah - one more thing. Using CF/SLI as an upgrade path rarely pays off. Often the highest end GPU of the next generation is close, or faster than the previous highest end GPU in CF/SLI. Add to that, CF/SLI can be a bit finickity, won't work in all games, and require more power - its better just to get a single new card.

The dilemas continue rolling in ;) Might be worth just getting an 8800GTS or HD2900XT since they're both fast and not too expensive. The HD2900XT could be paired with a second card in your motherboard for CrossFire if you found yourself wanting more performance (doubtful).
 
relieved to hear that i can run different sized tfts, so alls not lost then :)

im going to be running xp64bit on new pc, and gonna be ugrading to 4gb ram (2 more 1gb pc2-6400 ballistix) after the summer. thought about running vista but i dont think ill have a smooth cross over with a lot of my music prod apps just yet. thats 1 for next year im hoping.

just had a check of the 8800's and the new ati hd's. there seems to be a lot more bang for me buck with the ati which im likeing a lot. i do have 1 concern tho ... with the ati being a dx10 card, would i still utilize all the extra mhz and stream processors just running dx9, or do u think i'll have some reduced performance ? i hope not, they are a good price, it might just be worth hanging on for a bit more selection in this range, they seem pretty new and so few, but if i do my pc components remain boxed for several more weeks ... oh no, my mind is unravelling again ... :eek: hehe
 
Both NV and ATI's DX10 parts run at full speed in DX10 :) Actually they're still faster in DX9 due to the drivers being significantly more optimised for DX9, rather than DX10.

One note of caution though, the 2900XTs are noisy when they spin up. Even in the desktop they spin up on occasion for a few seconds. The 8800s on the other hand are very quiet all the time, even in games.
 
i think my minds made up then, im gonna have to go with the 8800, background noise is a problem that i really need to keep a tight lid on, i upset my neighbours enough as it is with my racket, so having to turn that up further to drown out more fan noise isnt really a good idea :)

id just like to say a huge thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread, all your advice was gratefully received and apreciated.

thanks =)
 
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