Sonos 5.1 setup possible from multiple sources??

[Chris [BEANS]]

So....

The deal is, I'm looking for a wireless multi room system.

Seems Sonos is a no brainer.

I have an Apple Music subscription, and will be getting an iPad mini strictly for controlling the Sonos and streaming Apple Music around the house.

Firstly, does anyone have any experience of streaming Apple Music via the Sonos app? Is it as easy to use as the Apple Music app itself? Do you have access to things like the curator playlists etc, or is it just a case of searching for artists/bands by name?


Anyway, the real question is this....

I'd like a 5.1 setup on the main TV downstairs.

So, Playbar, Sub, and two rear Play 1's.
Connected to the TV via HDMI will be the Sky box and the PS4 (maybe the Apple TV, but I'm struggling to see why I'd need it to be honest).

The TV would then be connected to the Playbar via optical cable.
However, I've looked around, and it seems that if the PS4 connects direct to the TV via HDMI, then the TV would only output stereo via the optical out.

Is that right? Seems insane!

This means, I could either have 5.1 from the PS4, or the Sky box, but not both unless I was prepared to keep swapping the optical cable between the two.
Surely not?!? This Sonos setup appears to be from the future, it makes no sense that with new Sony TV, and a new 5.1 system and the current gen of console, I can't have 5.1 from two different sources....


Anyone?

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

What a fantastic post! Thank you!!

Plenty in there to research on a lazy Sunday!!

I'll go through it all and see if anything suits me better, but if it's as simple as adding an optical switch, I might be tempted to stick with the Sonos.
I've got the budget for the 5.1, and then a speaker for every other room of the house, and after so much looking around I'm pretty set on the Sonos.

It's a brand new house, and I'm decorating now, I'm not up for channeling wires, and definitely no trunking.

In all honesty, I've always wanted a muti room speaker setup for music since I discovered AirPlay years ago and was blown away by it.
Now I'm lucky enough to have the budget to do something about it and so I've researched the ideal setup, which includes the 5.1 tv system. It might be overkill.

I've only ever used my TV's speakers until now and never had a problem with it.
I've no doubt a proper external setup is much better but I don't really know what I'm missing.
Perhaps just the Soundbar on the TV will be a huge step up, will extend the multi room system to the living room, and save me £800!

I'm torn, but I'll definitely look up the things you've suggested, I'm far from settled on any decision!

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Hold on..... Does this mean the I can get 5.1 by connecting the PS4 to the TV via HDMI, or am I misunderstanding it??

https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answ...our-playstation-4-to-output-dolby-digital-5.1

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Will do!

Love the answers I'm getting! Clearly there are way more options than I'd been considering!

My major sticking point is the wires, I appreciate that there's budget for that, but having them hidden in the walls means more decorating, and they'll be a permanent fixture and inflexible.
I've no intention to move things around, but I'm sure I will at some point....

On the subject of using the Sonos connect, I like it, so I get the whole Sonos experience and a better version of 5.1, genius!

Damn wires....!

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

No, unless your TV is an exception then the vast majority will always convert any multichannel audio via the HDMI inputs down to basic stereo. That means that the connection to the Playbar is sending just PCM stereo.

PCM stereo covers a "L+R" stereo signal and it also covers Dolby Surround where the stereo signal has a hidden centre and surround signal matrixed under the basic stereo signal. This is then decoded using Dolby ProLogic (A.K.A. DPL or more commonly now DPLII). This is not the same though as the discrete surround formats (DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA) where for 5.1 surround there are 6 individual separate (discrete) audio channels contained in the Bitstream digital signal.

This is starting to go over my head!!

So, two options are:-

Sonos 5.1 with an optical switch.... Benefits are wireless, flexible, and aesthetically very nice. Downside is price, and not as high quality audio.

Dedicated 5.1 setup with Sonos Connect.... Cheaper, better quality audio, greater compatibility, but wires, all over the living room, or hidden and therefore permanent and inflexible.

I'll google the suggestions, and post back.

As it's of interest to others, once it's in I'll take a few snaps and let you all know exactly what I think.

I'm yet to get flooring put in, so there's no reason I couldn't lay the speaker cables underneath I guess.
If I ever need to move the speakers I can simply snip them where they come out at the skirting and seal over the top.
Wiring them up later can be a bridge I cross later.....

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Just looking at the Monster Audio speakers, they look nice, but the benefit of the Sonos is the soundbar plays the role of the centre and the front side speakers.

That physical setup would suit my room better.
Difficult to explain, might take a pic.

Ultimately, I 'think' I'm going Sonos and an optical switch. Seems the neater solution which is quite important to me....

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Right.... I apologise for the millions of posts, but as has been expertly illustrated by lucid, this is a much deeper subject than it appears!
I've got to say, I love this forum, i really appreciate both the depth of knowledge and willingness to help of it's members.

I've decided on the straight up Sonos, full 5.1 setup. It's wireless, it's aesthetic, the physical setup (no front side speakers) suits my room best, and I'm no audiophile so it'll be a huge step up from just using the tv speakers. The music streamed will be from Apple Music so it won't be HD audio.
Most importantly, as far as I can tell, I will get 5.1 audio.

Unless of course any of what I've got below is wrong??

My TV outputs Dolby Digital:-

http://m.johnlewis.com/mt/www.johnl...ew-hd-and-built-in-wi-fi/p1919512#page_loaded

The Playbar will output 5.1 sound from a Dolby digital signal (I don't even know if signal is the right word!), and the PS4 will decode DTS to DD itself...

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/dts-dolby-51-on-playbar-2015-edition-6731191

The only 5.1 I need is from the PS4. I use it for Blu Ray and Netflix. I don't care about 5.1 coming from the sky box.

Plus, if this fails, as lucid points out in the very first reply here, I can always get an optical switch....

I will update this as soon as it's all bought, but I'll be checking back in case anyone's spotted any glaring errors?

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Didn't see that before I posted lucid.

If you're not a candidate for Man of Honour for your knowledge and contributions, then nobody should be!!

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Sony aren't very forthcoming with accurate info on their products, but I'd lay odds at 99:1 that the KDL40W705 is like most other sets and it only give DD 5.1 from its own internal tuner (and then only for the very small number of HD-only channels that broadcast the occasional programme in DD5.1) and also for any streamed content via the TVs own browser/streaming function that carries DD5.1 audio. I am 99% certain that your PS4 won't give DD5.1 through the telly and out via Optical. It'll get down-converted to basic stereo. So DD5.1 only applies to the internal tuner (and then only in a very specific set of circumstances) and streamed content from the Sony's own browser and nothing else.

Ergo: If you want DD5.1 from the PS4and your other sources you will definitely need the switch to route that sound direct to the Playbar. If you go via the TV it'll be 'frucked up'

Understood! So an optical switch it is!
I can live with that, no issue at all, and there's no issue with mutiple remotes.
I genuinely don't care about using three or four, which is wierd, because everything else has to be super minimalist and neat!

I've googled with no success, does anyone know of an optical switch with either Bluetooth or app (ios) control? I'd like to hide it if at all possible.

Edit: lucid, I won't keep thanking you, it's getting cringy! So genuine massive thanks, and from now on the thanks is implied in any replies!!

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Personally I don't see how a playbar and 2 wireless speakers is proper 5.1. it's 3.1 IMO but instead of 2 front speakers you got 2 back speakers.

the playbar is a soundbar so just like a big centre speaker not a centre and a front L and R.

Sonos also IMO is just ridiculously expensive for what it is. Why has no other company made wireless speakers that work with AVR's?

Thanks

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

So, after MUCH googling, I think I've found the optical switch I want.

http://www.futureshop.co.uk/blustre...ac-audio-conversion-p-10568.html#.Vrj4spobinM

Not only is it a much more sensible design than anything else I've found, but it also has the option of an IR extension so I can hide it and discretely mount the receiver somewhere too.

So, I now need four optical cables.... These appear to vary wildly in price!!
I think four 1m cables will do it, so does anyone have any recommendations (lucid, I'm looking at you!)?

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Right.... I apologise fellas, but it'll be a while before I report back!

Just ordered the switch above, and four optical cables from eBay, but currently my house has no flooring and is pretty much a building site.
It's all booked up, but until it's in there's no point in hooking everything up.
As soon as that's done I'll scoop up the Sonos system and report back.
After all my searching there seems to be very little info on setting up a Sonos 5.1 setup with multiple inputs, and there seems to be a great deal of conflicting info on the Sonos 5.1 system working with the PS4.

Once it's all in I'll give it a decent write up, I'll post a load of pics, and I 'may' knock up a short video too, especially if it all works as planned.
That way, people as dumb as me, but not lucky enough to have the guidance of this thread will have some solid answers and an idiots guide to getting it all working!

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

May not be the same as a full dedicated 5.1 system but it sure sounds amazing.

I started with just the PlayBar and rear Play1's and only recently added the Sub. Yeah it cost a fair whack but I love the flexibility and the "no wires" of the system. If we have friends round, I can unplug the sub from the wall socket, take it downstairs and pair it with a Play 5. Simple as that.

My Sony KDL32W654 handles the passthrough 5.1 fine, my only annoyance with the system is that it doesn't support DTS.

Good to hear!
Can I ask what you've got plugged into the TV that you get 5.1 from? Console, dedicated bluray player, etc?

Would be great if my TV handles the passthrough without the need for the optical switch, much more elegant, but I've ordered one now anyway so that when it comes to setting up if mine doesn't then I don't have to wait an extra few days for the switch.

I'm optimistic now! My TV is a Sony too (although I have a Samsung available and I will try both out) and I think is a slightly higher spec (the numbers after the 'w' are slightly higher) so fingers crossed it will have the same passthrough... erm.... ability? Capability? Erm... do it too, fingers crossed it will do it too

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Looking at about two weeks before my house is sorted and I can get these speakers in....

In the mean time, I just need to make sure I have everything I need.

So far, I have the optical switch, 4 X optical cables, and I'll have the speakers as soon as the house is done.
Is there a streaming video/audio track that I can use so that I'll be able to tell whether each speaker is making noise when it should, and in turn, not making noise when it shouldn't??

Edit: I mean specifically some sort of test track that will let me know that, for example, only front left will play next, then play a sound....

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Hooooold on a sec - you dont want to go for a decent wired solution because of having to deal with hiding the cables etc.

With the floor up, you have loads of options of stashing a couple of cables under there! Even if the joists are running in the wrong direction, you could buy some flat speaker cable, cut a small channel into the sub floor and run them along that?

Just looking at the Monster Audio speakers, they look nice, but the benefit of the Sonos is the soundbar plays the role of the centre and the front side speakers.

That physical setup would suit my room better.
Difficult to explain, might take a pic.

Ultimately, I 'think' I'm going Sonos and an optical switch. Seems the neater solution which is quite important to me....

Ultimately, there's nowhere sensible to put the front left (or right?! Do you refer to it as you're facing it or as it is to the tv?!) speaker because there's a door in the way, plus I prefer the simple and more minimalist aesthetic of the Sonos.

The floor the speaker cable would be run across is concrete with Karndean going on top.
The cable would have to poke out at the join with the skirting, and would be a permanent fixture and inflexible for any future moves or rearrangements.

Plus, as I've said above I'm no dedicated audiophile. I appreciate that other solutions may be better phonically, but the Sonos will be a huge step up from what I'm used to, and as long as I get surround sound I'll be as happy as a pic in mud!

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

I have my Apple TV 4 and PS4 plugged in. Both output 5.1 to the Sonos via HDMI

Glad to hear about the PS4. So many conflicting stories online.

So frustrating waiting to get this done. Few weeks and I'll have it all bought and hooked up!

Starting to think of a new TV now though

I've been reading up on the hires audio issue and it seems to be a hardware limitation. So without upgraded hardware it's not going to happen...

not entirely sure what this means??

Edit: Googled. High Res audio?

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Blu Rays and UHD Blu Rays have their Audio in 'Hi Res' formats like 'Dolby True HD' and 'DTS Master Audio'

These formats can only be sent via HDMI cable and not via optical.

You won't be able to listed to any high res tracks in their full bitrate quality.

All Blu Ray players can down mix Dolby True HD to Dolby digital 5.1 and DTS Master Audio to DTS for older 5.1 systems that didn't do Hi Res formats.

Unfortunately unlike say DVD the vast majority of Blu Rays use DTS Master Audio tracks, being as the Sonos doesn't second basic DTS you aren't going to be getting a lot of 5.1 from your blu rays.

There appears to be a work around:-

There is one work around.
You can plug your PS4 directly into your sound system via optical out. If your sound system supports Dolby/DTS you are golden, if not (for example the Sonos Playbar in 5.1 doesn't support DTS yet...) you need to select Dobly Digital 5.1 as your optical output, then when watching a BluRay movie press "Options" and go over to Audio, then select "BITSTREAM(MIX)" This will convert the DTS track to Dolby Digital, and it will play in 5.1 sound.

Found here:- http://community.us.playstation.com...-cable-on-Surround-Sound/td-p/42338089/page/2

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

I'm getting pretty stuck!!

The more I research, the more I'm leaning towards waiting!!

I want Sonos, throughout the house, however this DTS thing appears to be a huge issue.
Sonos will not be adding DTS to the Playbar as they don't have the right hardware and apparently can't licence a software solution.

Playbar is three years old, so I'm guessing there must be a Mk 2 due soon??
Also, apparently both Philips and Samsung are releasing wireless 5.1 systems that have DTS and in Samsung's case something called Atmos.

There are also other similar solutions on the way.

So, I could still have Sonos around the house, then connect it to the other 5.1 system via a bridge.

All of this new technology is due in 2016....


On the other hand, after all of my research it does appear that I can make do with somewhat cumbersome workarounds.
I'm dead keen to get started, and if a soundbar Mk2 is on the horizon, then I could simply replace mine on release, flog the old one for half the price and it's only cost a few quid....

Hmmmmm

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

This is ridiculous.

I have too much time on my hands, and I'm just sat around surrounded by boxes so I'm going over and over what to do.....

Researched the Denon amp lucid recommends in his first post.
Seems it can be controlled by an iOS app!

So, I could hide it in the cupboard under the stairs.
If I can lay speaker cable under the Karndean floor (Internet is ambiguous and routing the concrete isn't going to happen), then I might go with the Denon amp and the Monitor Audio speakers.
I'd have to put the front speakers on stands directly next to the TV though and it might hurt the minimalist look I'm hoping for....

However, this would mean I get super surround sound on everything, I can hide the amp, and once this Sky Q thing is out with its Bluetooth remote, then literally everything can be hidden away.....

I've crudely drawn my room and intended setup and if I can work out how to get it hosted from my phone, I'll post it so you guys get an idea of what I'm talking about...

 

[Chris [BEANS]]

Excuse the crudely drawn scrawl on an envelope!!

Circles are where the speakers will go, 'S' is the Sub, rectangle behind the TV is the cupboard behind the stairs where I'll stash stuff.
I'm getting a brush plate put in between the two.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I take it the HDMI from various inputs, Apple TV, PS4 etc go into the amp, which in turn has a single HDMI into the TV?

Can anyone comment on whether this adds any significant screen lag to online games etc?
Might the best thing for the PS4 be to HDMI direct to the TV and optical out to the amp?

Edit: I'm in Dartford, so assuming the Sevenoaks place you're talking about is actually in Sevenoaks, I can go check it out.....