Sony 4D statement explained

[FrankJH]

Well they're saying the 4th dimension is time, but games have always had time passing. I'm not sure you can make a game without the 4th dimension.

Yes you can , you just dont notice the lack of it (not being personal, just meaning you as in any player)

Think of the many racing games for instance that last an hour or two, and yet the sunset is constant (or angle of sun in general) - I have noticed that in Forza 2 for example - no disrespect, but what sunset lasts more than a few minutes?

 

[Psyk]

Yes you can , you just dont notice the lack of it (not being personal, just meaning you as in any player)

Think of the many racing games for instance that last an hour or two, and yet the sunset is constant (or angle of sun in general) - I have noticed that in Forza 2 for example - no disrespect, but what sunset lasts more than a few minutes?

Time is still passing otherwise nothing would move. Everything would just be completely static if no time passed.

 

[msmalls74]

Without gettin bombarded with hate

Arent current games 3D? 3 Dimensions

And isnt Time a dimension?

So adding real time to games that are 3D...Should that then make them 4D?

Kinda makes sense lol

Yep thats sounds about right i just get confused when people start talking about 10, 11 or even more! (ok most are theoretical). Us humans can only perceive up to the third dimension while we have knowledge of our travel through the fourth. We, however can not perceive anything past the fourth. We have had ageing in games like fable for example but it wasnt real time as such and it didnt affect the whole enviroment.

 

[wannabedamned]

Yes you can , you just dont notice the lack of it (not being personal, just meaning you as in any player)

Think of the many racing games for instance that last an hour or two, and yet the sunset is constant (or angle of sun in general) - I have noticed that in Forza 2 for example - no disrespect, but what sunset lasts more than a few minutes?

I've just had this with my girlfriend lol, She says surely Sims 2 is 4D using this sort of thinking.

I was like well... No...


infact here, I'll paste the MSN convo ( I aint sad, she's in manchester for a few weeks)

GF says:
tis all confusing
GF says:
so surely
GF says:
sims is 4d
Me says:
No, because Sims 2 is set in its ways
Me says:
a year passes, and it repeats a cycle
GF says:
aye but so does real life
Me says:
No, Because if you break a mirror in life, its broken
Me says:
You have to replace it
Me says:
If a tree grows old, it keeps growing old till it dies. At which point you replace it
GF says:
same with sims
GF says:
trees can die
GF says:
and you have to replant them
GF says:
and they grow fruit if you look after them
GF says:
and you pick the fruit
Me says:
yes, but all the trees die in the same way, with the same textures. looking the same way
GF says:
well aye, i doubt the PS3 is gonna be able to make things much more complicated than that
GF says:
theres only so much space on a disk for variables

 

[KNiVES]

Some people here forget that 4d isn't about appearance (better graphics). It's about the progression of time (which is the fourth dimension after all), and therefore the items that are affected by it. Graphics don't necessarily have to be 'better'.

 

[DreXeL]

Think of the many racing games for instance that last an hour or two, and yet the sunset is constant (or angle of sun in general) - I have noticed that in Forza 2 for example - no disrespect, but what sunset lasts more than a few minutes?

The sun gradually sets in rFactor on the PC, in real time, with shadows etc changing. That is a very easy thing to impliment, without any need of '4d technology', it should have been in Forza

 

[ljt]

i just had a read of that article, but correct me if i'm wrong, but this sort of stuff is already happening in games with timelines etc, ok maybe not in that depth, but i wouldnt call it "4d"

Games arent even fully 3d yet, if 3d is height, width and depth then games arent any of that yet, i cant reach in an touch any of the surfaces, hold any of the weapons, get the sensation of it raining, that would be coming close to 3d/4d stuff not just watching a picture....?

 

[Psyk]

I've just had this with my girlfriend lol, She says surely Sims 2 is 4D using this sort of thinking.

I was like well... No...


infact here, I'll paste the MSN convo ( I aint sad, she's in manchester for a few weeks)

Your girlfriend has a point

Really all this is, is a more advanced way of doing things some games have already been doing for ages. It doesn't really add a 4th dimension, Sony are just using "4D" as a buzzword to convince Joe Public it's more than what it really is.

 

[dbmzk1]

What a load of crap

Adding an aging effect to a game does not make it "4D". Really don't see what use that has in a game either apart from an accelerated timeline, ie a time machine, but thats been done anyway.

Technobabble filled hype.

 

[Weebull]

This is all utter marketing guff and I can't believe people are rationally arguing about it.

In regards to what has been discussed as "4D" gaming in this thread, there's absolutely nothing new that could be done on the PS3 that couldn't on any other system. Aging terrain and environments are perfectly possible to program already, the only reason no-one does it is because:

a) It's laborious and time-consuming for little end product.
b) Save files would balloon in size.
c) No-one would even notice because you'd have to play the game for such a long time to see anything.
d) It's stupid and adds nothing to a game. I don't give a **** if my car rusts in Forza, and I wouldn't want developers to waste their time trying to make it so.

 

[Psyk]

Procedurally generated textures could be very useful though. For some reason they decided to demonstrate this technology by aging textures, even though that would be useless to most games. There are plenty of other applications for this technology that would actually be useful.

 

[wannabedamned]

Procedurally generated textures could be very useful though. For some reason they decided to demonstrate this technology by aging textures, even though that would be useless to most games. There are plenty of other applications for this technology that would actually be useful.

I'll be the first to put up my hand and say...

I don't understand, what are procedurally generated textures, and what makes them so important

 

[Weebull]

Well basically the textures are created by the game code, and not a big flat image file like they are currently. So you're less restricted by the format, and can maniupulate the texture better, because it's all code and can be altered as such, and it becomes more "natural" and less "scripted".

So, for example, you could simulate aging by creating an algorithm that applies the effects of it to a model's current texture (add wrinkles, sag the skin, slowly grey it, etc), rather than simply passing through a bunch of textures from different ages like a flickbook. Think of it like the difference between having truly deformable terrain, and buildings that just have set parts fall off like some games do/did. It's a similar kind of concept.

 

[V4NT0M]

Haha 4D...

lol

Nobody cares... (yet)

 

[Pug]

i care and i think the ideas a good one. doubt it will have an effect with the PS3 tho.

when we've had aging and stuff this far we've had one image (texture) replaced with another image, and so on.

This idea would mean instead of having to create, and replace textures, the original texture may be able to be changed in terms of code and rendered as such.

For example in say guild wars, the armour could gain chinks and marks as you do more battle. Or get rusty, or if its cloth armour (like for monks) could develop tears and need repairing. or something.

 

[Kreeeee]

I'll be the first to put up my hand and say...

I don't understand, what are procedurally generated textures, and what makes them so important

textures are usually stored as a large file on the disc. This can be replaced by a very small code that allows the texture to be generated and adapted "on the fly" via an algorithm. This has large overheads on CPU resources though and isn't the holy grail sony make it out to be.

 

[Lunatic Dreyfus]

Hype hype hype hype hype.

Precisely.

What they are actually saying is this... "We want more of your money. Keep buying our products."

 

[Kreeeee]

Precisely.

What they are actually saying is this... "We want more of your money. Keep buying our products."

Luckily people aren't quite as idiotic this time around. It looks like people have learnt from the emotion engine and toy story 2 graphics BS from the last gen.