Sony XH90 owners

jpaul said:
Can even the new architecture support 50+Mb/s
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Thread on sony tv hardware V - hadn't appreciated android tv refresh rate for internal apps (netflix/prime/kodi) is fixed at 60hz, so no frame rate matching,
I use a roku, so can get netflix that way, but you wouldn't get the tv's motion processing etc then


https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=356128&page=2
I have an X900F (aka 490XF9005 in the UK) - and it's unusable for Netflix and Prime for our family. We watch a mix of 24 and 25fps content on both platforms (most European shows on Prime and Netflix are shot 25fps, and live sport on Prime is 50fps.) - and whilst fiddling with settings can get a near-tolerable 24fps result, there is nothing that rescues 25 and 50fps content that we have found that doesn't just introduce a heap load of other artefacts.

What's infuriating is that the Sony can do frame rate switching - as the YouView apps for BBC iPlayer work correctly at 25/50fps on the TV, as do the All4 and ITV Hub apps... (However I also read reports that if you use the integrated DVB-S/S2 or T/T2 tuners for integrated recordings via a USB attached storage device, the recordings are replayed at 60Hz with 10Hz judder...)
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There does seem to be an issue with a blurry or softer picture when using the enhanced 4K 120 setting. On avforums it’s even causing some of the members to want to return their set despite an update that improved it slightly.

This has me really worried as I’m not the type of person who upgrades regularly. I still have my 52hx903 after 8 years which has been an outstanding tv for us. Never has an issue with it.

Can anyone here clarify if this is an issue but it’s really not that bad or is it worth waiting for the new models which should already have allm and vrr and better picture overall.
 
Yaayuh! said:
Yes, you’re correct.

The XH95 is the better quality screen but the XH90 has 120Hz @ 4K with VRR incoming.
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That's it. I can't see that update coming until the 2021 range is released. It looks like the 2021 model (X90J) is slightly better than the 9005. (Probably what the 9005 should have been)

Captioned from a video

Following will be comparing X90J and X900H unless the X950H is specifically mentioned.

  • 4K120Hz fixed on X90J, still has HDMI 2.1 only on HDMI ports 3/4.
  • X90J still needs a firmware update for VRR.
  • Smooth gradation (reduced banding for lower bitrate sources) is added to the X90J where the X900H lacked that feature.
  • Other panel qualities (brightness, contrast, gamut, accuracy) largely unchanged. Seem to be within margin of error.
  • Calibration has a few more steps and calibrates well.
  • No changes in VA panel.
  • No X-wide angle like the X950H.
  • X900H still has the best controlled FALD blooming, with X90J coming after, then the X950H.
  • MEM motion (seems to be interpolation related) was changed on the X90J but does not necessarily appear to be an improvement.
  • SOC is still the same MT5895.
  • Only Chinese version of the X90J got upgraded to 32GB of NAND. International is still 16GB.
  • RAM is technically 4GB instead of 3GB now, but the software does not appear to be able to utilize all 4GB.
  • Slightly improved sound from built-in speakers.
  • Not much change in game mode quality.
  • XR processor is an additional processing chip in addition to the MT5895 which was used as an all-in-one chip on the X900H.
  • XR processor largely doesn't appear to do much and appears to reduce color accuracy a bit. Seem to boost reds and brightness a bit. May be possible to be improved with firmware updates.
  • X90J costs 1000 Yuan (~$153 USD) more than the X900H for no real reason (probably due to added XR processor).
 
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rtings comment about the blur are interesting effectively the
3 GB RAM, MediaTek MT5895 Quad Core A53 CPU clocked @1.8GHz, ARM-Mali G52 GPU
isn't up to the job so has to drop the colour sampling from 4:4:4 to 4:2:0 for 120hz at both 4k&1080, so colour is sampled on only half the pixels, with loss of detail/blur

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/g7fpDu1vJV2Y3XZp/hdmi-2-1-4k-120hz-blur-bug


...purchase probably depends on what kind of deal you have versus the price of the new x90j
 
jpaul said:
rtings comment about the blur are interesting effectively the
3 GB RAM, MediaTek MT5895 Quad Core A53 CPU clocked @1.8GHz, ARM-Mali G52 GPU
isn't up to the job so has to drop the colour sampling from 4:4:4 to 4:2:0 for 120hz at both 4k&1080, so colour is sampled on only half the pixels, with loss of detail/blur

https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/g7fpDu1vJV2Y3XZp/hdmi-2-1-4k-120hz-blur-bug


...purchase probably depends on what kind of deal you have versus the price of the new x90j
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But aren't the 2021 models based on the same chip?
 
superleeds27 said:
But aren't the 2021 models based on the same chip?
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from the post before mine and a ratings comment they seem to think it has an additional co-processor chip (like their 8k's already had)

new x85j probably cheaper, also with hdmi 2.1 & 120hz might be interesting,
whether 2021's will address android problem forcing media playback at 60hz though.



co-processor - LOL ... is this all to compensate for low streaming bitrates
https://restechtoday.com/sony-bravia-xr-tvs-combine-ai-cognitive-intelligence/
Closer to Reality
To create a closer-to-reality image, Cognitive Processor XR divides the screen into hundreds of zones to better recognize individual objects. In just one second, the processor cross-analyzes a few hundred thousand different elements that make up a picture, similar to how our brains work.

Sony says this is an improvement over traditional AI video processing, in which the different elements that make up a TV picture are looked at individually and all elements adjusted to the same level. AI-only processing, the company says, can make the video look artificial and take the viewer out of the experience. With cross-analysis from the Cognitive Processor XR, each element is adjusted to its best final outcome, in conjunction with each other, for a more natural video image.

The new processor helps improve the viewer’s natural focal point on the screen, making facial features and skin tones appear more authentic and reproducing the depth, texture, and vividness of the natural world. BRAVIA XR TVs are designed to detect the main focal point in a scene and, by enhancing each detail in the object, ensure that it stands out with a natural sense of depth.
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jpaul said:
from the post before mine and a ratings comment they seem to think it has an additional co-processor chip (like their 8k's already had)

new x85j probably cheaper, also with hdmi 2.1 & 120hz might be interesting,
whether 2021's will address android problem forcing media playback at 60hz though.



co-processor - LOL ... is this all to compensate for low streaming bitrates
https://restechtoday.com/sony-bravia-xr-tvs-combine-ai-cognitive-intelligence/
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That X85J looks interesting.

Edit: Scrap that. No local dimming. Edge lit
 
unless it's got 100's of dimming zones (full fat dx902) that doesn't cut it for me , 900's 48 zones are not very discrete when you see the youtube reviews.

I'd prefer to pay £200 less for 120hz/IPS panel with good viewing values, similar image processing as x900h ... well that's what my older 1080p panasonic is too.
 
jpaul said:
unless it's got 100's of dimming zones (full fat dx902) that doesn't cut it for me , 900's 48 zones are not very discrete when you see the youtube reviews.

I'd prefer to pay £200 less for 120hz/IPS panel with good viewing values, similar image processing as x900h ... well that's what my older 1080p panasonic is too.
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I'll pass on the IPS panels i think haha
 
Went down to my local Sony center and had a chat. He was really honest with me and agreed with what’s online about the 4K120 that there is an issue. He could have lied but he didn’t in fairness.

I’m going to wait and see if Sony fix the issue with the xh90 or do my research on the x90j. Hopefully it won’t have the same problems.

The rtings was a good read so thanks for that.

It’s a shame because if the tv didn’t have this problem I would be buying it right now.
 
jpaul said:
unless it's got 100's of dimming zones (full fat dx902) that doesn't cut it for me , 900's 48 zones are not very discrete when you see the youtube reviews.

I'd prefer to pay £200 less for 120hz/IPS panel with good viewing values, similar image processing as x900h ... well that's what my older 1080p panasonic is too.
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48 zones are still better than 1-4 and vastly so.

Obviously more is better but saying 48 is pointless and going down to 1-4 is better is ridiculous.

Especially on larger screens. Thearger the screen the better it will be having zones Vs no zones.

I also think the cost of going to hundreds of zones is too high to the point it's pointless as you can go oled instead.

If all your doing is saving £200 that's not good enough for losing FALD imo especially on a large TV.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
48 zones are still better than 1-4 and vastly so.

Obviously more is better but saying 48 is pointless and going down to 1-4 is better is ridiculous.

Especially on larger screens. Thearger the screen the better it will be having zones Vs no zones.

I also think the cost of going to hundreds of zones is too high to the point it's pointless as you can go oled instead.

If all your doing is saving £200 that's not good enough for losing FALD imo especially on a large TV.
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Agree with this.

Still stuck at the moment on deciding which route i go down. Need to eventually upgrade the NU7400 I currently have.
 
5punk3monk3y said:
If you have a series X I wouldn't touch any of the current Sony TV's

https://youtu.be/zUaw5RUI5po
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interesting .. think his conclusion that sony can't do dv@120hz because they use an off the shelf mediatek soc is wrong - sony have an auxiliary processor of their own design;

any additional latency incurred when using dv input will be interesting to see, you don't get dv processing for free, and, have to be able to update the screen tone curves to be able to respond to the dynamic meta data.
 
jpaul said:
interesting .. think his conclusion that sony can't do dv@120hz because they use an off the shelf mediatek soc is wrong - sony have an auxiliary processor of their own design;

any additional latency incurred when using dv input will be interesting to see, you don't get dv processing for free, and, have to be able to update the screen tone curves to be able to respond to the dynamic meta data.
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AFAIK the two 4k120 ports are mediatek driven. The soc isn't powerful enough to run 4k120 with DV, I don't know how he's wrong as I'm pretty sure the evidence is in the video.

Until more is known about this I wouldn't be gambling my money on any 4k120 Sony tv if I was running a series X, I'd be pretty annoyed that I couldn't get the most out of my Xbox after having parted with my cash on the TV.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
48 zones are still better than 1-4 and vastly so.

Obviously more is better but saying 48 is pointless and going down to 1-4 is better is ridiculous.

Especially on larger screens. Thearger the screen the better it will be having zones Vs no zones.

I also think the cost of going to hundreds of zones is too high to the point it's pointless as you can go oled instead.

If all your doing is saving £200 that's not good enough for losing FALD imo especially on a large TV.
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Sony have the best FALD algo too. It really works incredibly well with just 48 zones.
 
5punk3monk3y said:
AFAIK the two 4k120 ports are mediatek driven. The soc isn't powerful enough to run 4k120 with DV, I don't know how he's wrong as I'm pretty sure the evidence is in the video.
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ok we'll see
he acknowledges it's a theory/extrapolation, on his part that dv@120hz won't work based on limitation on current x950,
I stumbled on a similar thread here which suggest even the 120hz/vrr blur issue is not a limitation of the mediatek chipset, and, it should be 4k120 dv capable too.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/owners-thread-for-the-sony-x900h-no-price-talk.3125278/page-681
but does make the comment that dimming zone control (apparently can't disable it - didn't know that) might be the bottleneck.
so there is the implication it/4kdv120 is firmware fixable.
 
jpaul said:
ok we'll see
he acknowledges it's a theory/extrapolation, on his part that dv@120hz won't work based on limitation on current x950,
I stumbled on a similar thread here which suggest even the 120hz/vrr blur issue is not a limitation of the mediatek chipset, and, it should be 4k120 dv capable too.
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/owners-thread-for-the-sony-x900h-no-price-talk.3125278/page-681
but does make the comment that dimming zone control (apparently can't disable it - didn't know that) might be the bottleneck.
so there is the implication it/4kdv120 is firmware fixable.
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And that is why you don't go dropping £1000 on a TV that *might* as you say be fixable especially if the purchase is based on getting the most out of a series X.

Smart money goes on an LG for this purpose.
 
Not looking good for the x90j. There’s a reviewer on YouTube claiming there’s serious judder in game mode and washed out colours.

Will wait for more reviews. Really hope this isn’t true or something that is fixable.
 
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