Sooo, garage might try a fast one

agnes · 18 Mar 2015 at 10:38

Ok, so I do have somewhere to put my foot on then, thanks guys. I'll look up the details of the SoGA. If the ad had stated 'potential steering issue' or something along those lines at £500 cheaper, I would have investigated more and obviously driven the price down. But they didn't. So in my eyes, a maor component is failing, could have easily been picked up by their mechanic, I took it back less than 48 hours after purchase for them to resolve. The only thing they did state was a potential leak which they have happily agreed to resolve FOC.

So, thanks for advice guys.

EDIT: Found this - http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/con1item.cgi?file=*ADV0003-1011.txt

Scania · 18 Mar 2015 at 10:58

Another avenue to investigate is the new MOT despite the steering fault, I doubt very much it's simply developed since the test.

The car sounds otherwise good (which for the price it damn well should be!) but don't go offering to meet the costs in any way, he pays to fix it, not you.

agnes · 18 Mar 2015 at 11:00

Scania said:
Another avenue to investigate is the new MOT despite the steering fault, I doubt very much it's simply developed since the test.

The car sounds otherwise good (which for the price it damn well should be!) but don't go offering to meet the costs in any way, he pays to fix it, not you.

Ok chap, I'll stand firm. I'm not sure any test in the MOT would have really picked it up.

Scania · 18 Mar 2015 at 11:07

agnes said:
Ok chap, I'll stand firm. I'm not sure any test in the MOT would have really picked it up.

Stand your ground, indeed.

As for the MOT, maybe, maybe not.

I'd have thought it would flag up though from what you describe of the fault.

Have you checked the power steering fluid?

agnes · 18 Mar 2015 at 11:11

Scania said:
Stand your ground, indeed.

As for the MOT, maybe, maybe not.

I'd have thought it would flag up though from what you describe of the fault.

Have you checked the power steering fluid?

Checked fluid, first thing I did, and checked the 'mesh filter' in the res. Both fine, liquid looked old, but I'm sure it's likely the original. So maybe this is the problem, very unlikely though as the 'resistance' spots are in specific areas. But yea, both present and at the correct levels.

rodenal · 18 Mar 2015 at 11:56

I'd honestly just get them to refund you. As much as you thought the car was a good buy, it clearly wasn't (and imo was overpriced even if it had been in the condition you thought) - best just to move on

radderfire · 18 Mar 2015 at 12:09

I am slowly improving my knowledge of cars. This unfortunate situation does show the importance of doing a comprehensive test drive, because you would have picked up the fault had you done one. You said you just drove up and down the road, and that's not enough. There are a number of guides to buying second hand cars online, and they detail the kinds of things you can do on a test drive to mitigate buying risks.

Here's a video from Wheeler Dealers of an older BMW estate which also had an initial power steering problem. They fixed it, and it ended up a really nice car in the end. If might be worth finding the full video to see what the fault was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxGdZ1th22k

Having had a quick read of the Trading Standards info, I would say that you are entitled to a satisfactory repair or refund. You would not expect to have such a fault present on the car when you bought it.

I hope it works out OK for you.

Rgds

agnes · 18 Mar 2015 at 12:45

radderfire said:
I am slowly improving my knowledge of cars. This unfortunate situation does show the importance of doing a comprehensive test drive, because you would have picked up the fault had you done one. You said you just drove up and down the road, and that's not enough. There are a number of guides to buying second hand cars online, and they detail the kinds of things you can do on a test drive to mitigate buying risks.

Here's a video from Wheeler Dealers of an older BMW estate which also had an initial power steering problem. They fixed it, and it ended up a really nice car in the end. If might be worth finding the full video to see what the fault was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxGdZ1th22k

Having had a quick read of the Trading Standards info, I would say that you are entitled to a satisfactory repair or refund. You would not expect to have such a fault present on the car when you bought it.

I hope it works out OK for you.

Rgds

Indeed I am kicking my self in the shin for not taking it for a proper test drive as I normally do. But as this was a cheaper buy for me, I figured a quick stint up the road would let me toy with the usuals. I just didn't think about properly testing the steering. Which sounds daft, but in the moment I simply didn't think about it, nothing felt out of place enough for me to notice, only after driving around for about an hour I noticed the resistance. You could probably give the car to any ol' punter and they wouldn't notice/nor make a fuss. But having a 2005 130i M sport, I know how it feels as that's also hydrolic. So I knew it wasn't right and I bet you any money, the garage was hoping I wouldn't notice.

Haggisman · 18 Mar 2015 at 13:32

Peerzy said:
With regard to your actually issue you might need to check out the SoGA. They can't force you to return it and refund you.

Peerzy said:
They can't force you to return the car, if the repair is going to cost them £10k then it's tough.

Can you post your sources for this? As this is the first time I've ever heard of this, and it seems highly unlikely.

Steve2000 · 18 Mar 2015 at 13:38

agnes said:
Indeed I am kicking my self in the shin for not taking it for a proper test drive as I normally do. But as this was a cheaper buy for me, I figured a quick stint up the road would let me toy with the usuals.

I'd reckon a cheaper older car would warrant even more rigorous testing not less.

agnes · 18 Mar 2015 at 13:41

Steve2000 said:
I'd reckon a cheaper older car would warrant even more rigorous testing not less.

I now agree... I've learnt.

Peerzy · 18 Mar 2015 at 13:50

Haggisman said:
Can you post your sources for this? As this is the first time I've ever heard of this, and it seems highly unlikely.

They've sold you a car, they can't demand it back. They need to fix it, what that costs is of no concern to you providing it's within the first 6 months and the fault cannot be proven to be caused after the sale.

It's all in the SoGA. It's why garages usually chuck on £200 AA warranties for 6 months onto cars they sell as it means if something goes wrong they have to fix it by law but the AA warranty will pay for them to fix it so they actually win. Even better when they charge the buyer for the warranty for 6 months when it covers what the SoGA covers for free anyway.

pepsilol · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:03

You are seriously misunderstood.

Like seriously, please stahp typing.

Haggisman · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:03

Peerzy said:
They've sold you a car, they can't demand it back. They need to fix it, what that costs is of no concern to you providing it's within the first 6 months and the fault cannot be proven to be caused after the sale.

It's all in the SoGA. It's why garages usually chuck on £200 AA warranties for 6 months onto cars they sell as it means if something goes wrong they have to fix it by law but the AA warranty will pay for them to fix it so they actually win. Even better when they charge the buyer for the warranty for 6 months when it covers what the SoGA covers for free anyway.

So that's a:

"no, I can't post my sources because they don't exist"

then?

Peerzy · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:05

pepsilol said:
You are seriously misunderstood.

Like seriously, please stahp typing.

What is wrong? Are you saying he can report a fault and the garage can say "Oh yeah, gosh that's going to cost us a bit. Well here's your money back and we're taking the car off you."

The SoGA says the garage must attempt to fix the problem unless it can be proven that it developed after the car was sold from my understanding.

In this case a £1k fault on a £3k car should absolutely be fixed by the garage at no cost to the OP.

rodenal · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:09

There would be absolutely no recourse under SOGA if the trader offered to fully refund on the condition that the car was handed back. No loss has occured and a civil court would throw the case out as the seller acted responsibly.

They are under no obligation to attempt to repair it under these circumstances. Attempted repair only exists to prevent the buyer immediately demanding a refund for a small fault.

Haggisman · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:11

Peerzy said:
What is wrong? Are you saying he can report a fault and the garage can say "Oh yeah, gosh that's going to cost us a bit. Well here's your money back and we're taking the car off you."

The SoGA says the garage must attempt to fix the problem unless it can be proven that it developed after the car was sold from my understanding.

In this case a £1k fault on a £3k car should absolutely be fixed by the garage at no cost to the OP.

No, you're misunderstanding it.

"The SoGA states that the garage must fix the problem unless it can be proven that it developed after the car was sold"

Is correct.

However, giving a full refund and taking the car back is a perfectly valid and legal "fix".

agnes · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:13

Indeed, returning the car for a full refund is indeed 'legal'. But not giving me the option and demanding I return the car isn't. BUTTTT, here is the kicker, they've not done such a thing lol. I hope they don't, but they haven't.

My main concern at the moment is that 1) they recognise and at least tell me what is at fault and 2) provide a reasonable solution

Haggisman · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:14

agnes said:
not giving me the option and demanding I return the car isn't.

Correct - however if you refuse, you can't then insist that they repair it.

agnes · 18 Mar 2015 at 14:32

Ultimate worse case scenario is I take the car back, with the info the steering rack has a fault.

I pay £125 for a reconditioned unit (correct price) and get my local to fit it. Overall, not a large hole in my pocket. Whilst they have the car on the lift, they can also replace gearbox and engine oil, saves me the job.