Sous-vide cooking and vacuum sealing

Soldato
Joined
8 Nov 2005
Posts
4,490
I'm getting increasingly tempted to scratch a sous-vide itch and add the SousVide Supreme SVS10L to my kitchen, but the vacuum-sealing aspect of sous-vide cooking is the main concern I have about such a device being a useful addition and not a gadget on par with that sodding panini toaster I've got languishing at the back of one of my kitchen cupboards.

The thing is, what I don't want is a vacuum sealer with single-use bags as I've got a feeling the expense will quickly start to mount up. And I'm also not so sure about the sensitivity of the products aimed at the home market - the commercial-grade ones are very good at keeping delicate foods from getting squished when the air is extracted.

I've seen various reviews of the SVS10L that mention the Reynolds Handi Vac as a suitable alternative to a food-sealer (specifically mentioning the resealable nature of the bags as an advantage) but as far as I can tell, it's not available in the UK and the alternatives we do get are a bit rubbish.

But having just seen this thing on the Lakeland website, I'm tempted to give it a go. The bags seem sturdy and reusable, and being a hand-operated pump it ought to be easy enough to be careful with what you're up to.

Now, I appreciate that there will be very few people stupid enough to go to the expense of owning a sous-vide system, but do any of you have experiences with vacuum sealing systems and can offer some opinions?
 
Mate there is a water bath on the net for like 199 which I want to give a shot as it looks like it'd be pretty good and half the price. Lots of folk trying it, but "unbranded".
Do you mean the ones from Ultrafresh? I've looked into them, but it's just an old model of lab waterbath that someone has tarted up a bit and is selling as suitable for the kitchen.

If you know where to look, the SousVide Supreme can be had for a fair bit less than the RRP and it does seem to be the most affordable home solution for sous-vide cooking this side of buying a commercial-grade model from a liquidation sale.

With the bags, it's something that's come up a fair bit, are you on twitter? Some people on their, namely chefs I could point you to for what they have done to combat this.
Not on a personal level, but I am there in various official capacities. Can you link me to any feeds that are worth looking at?

Or www.thestaffcanteen.co.uk has a wealth of knowledge and chefs on there all willing to help people.
Not seen that site before, so I'll have a mooch around - thanks for that.

I'm not bothered by the Pacojet but a Thermomix is my next purchase. I'm borrowing an older version at the moment but with any luck the TM31 will be in my kitchen by Christmas.
 
I might have the wrong end of the stick here but what separates this from boil in a bag?
Not much really, when all is said and done, but the biggest difference would be keeping the bag at a constant temperature - something all but impossible with the 'pan of boiling water on hob' method.

There are an increasingly large number of foods coming vac-packed from the supermarket, so I'm really hoping we're going to see an explosion in home sous-vide cooking. Some are likening it to the 21st Century version of the microwave, which was another product that started off as being eye-wateringly expensive for early adopters but soon became an affordable product.

Speaking of which, Heston Blumenthal was working on an affordable version that was destined to hit the shops last year, but it seems to have been shelved for various reasons. It looks like this SousVide Supreme is the first 'affordable' version that actually works - it's just a shame about the pricing at the moment.
 
Indeed it was that one, dont get me wrong the supreme looks a hell of a lot better, though!
I spent a fair bit of time looking into the Ultrafresh one before deciding that it was just a lab-grade unstirred waterbath that was being cleverly marketed.

I'm sure it's usable, but the footprint wasn't suitable for my kitchen and something about it made me think it was a bit Mickey Mouse.

Might have to have a look out for one. The best thing to do would be to post on the staff canteen as everyone I follow on twitter is on there as well, all the chefs, some with incredible knowledge on the art of cooking, what temps for what etc. It's amazing.
Are you in the industry yourself of just an enthusiastic home-cook?
 
I have indeed. I was hugely sceptical of the whole idea but it turned out to be surprisingly good, although not very accurate and a complete pain to fill up.

Although the bodged zip-lock bag approach wasn't as good as using a proper vac-sealed bag - the bloody thing leaked.
 
That won't seal liquids
If that's your only reason for wanting/needing a chamber sealer, you're missing out.

There are various methods for sealing liquids inside a bag without a chamber sealer: freezing the liquids before adding; using a gelling agent; the double-bag method; the Archimedes principle method; hanging the bag off the counter; using a handheld sealer, being bloody careful what you're doing, etc.

Naturally, some work better than others, but for home use it's perfectly simple to get along without a chamber sealer. Hell, I know a few restaurants that manage okay without one, although they do use a moderately expensive external suction (*snigger*) model.

And Glitch, I'm not in the industry, although I was tempted to give up my real life and go that way. I got through to the round before the TV on this years masterchef haha had to go and be filmed and everything. Worked out OK though, I landed an awesome job after that, so the dream still is to open my own place with the Mrs later in life but I have plenty of time yet.
That's very pleasing to hear. May I enquire as to what you were doing pre-Masterchef and what you find yourself doing now?
 
Awesome, I keep meaning to try it myself. I'll probably use a knotted freezer bag because, like you say, the ziplock bags leak :)
If you get a sturdy ziplock bag (or even one with a double seal) they'll work a lot better.

I've since found some designed for storing and reheating soups and they'd easily be up to the task.
 
How did you find the whole Masterchef experience now that Shine have changed the format? Did you apply for any of the previous seasons?
 
I hadn't thought of freezing - blimey that's a bit obvious!
I have no idea how well it would work, but the theory is sound enough. I guess it just requires a fair bit of prep to accomplish.

Mind you, if you're the sort of organised cook who will spend the weekend preparing various stocks, sauces and other liquid bases and then freezing them into ice-cube trays, simply popping your chosen cube into the bag with your other ingredients ought to be a doddle.

Hmm, it all sounds so easy when you write it down...
 
Well, I took the plunge and bought one, but I'm afraid to say it's going back already. The damn thermostat was faulty, which somewhat rendered the unit inoperable.

I'm in two minds about whether to get another one as there were a few things about it that left me a little underwhelmed, but nothing that you could really consider a deal-breaker when it costs a third of the comparable professional-quality device. I guess it just felt a little flimsy in certain areas (mainly the lid, which didn't have the same heft of the rest of the unit) but it looked the part and brought a smile to my face every time I walked into the kitchen and spotted it - which is a bit sad, now I think about it...

All that being said, I did manage to use it to make a few things which came out fairly decently, but ultimately I was effectively using nothing more than a glorified metal coolbox with a LCD display and some buttons on the front!
 
Just a little update on this, should anyone be interested.

Having finally received my refund for the faulty unit, I turned to my local trusty department store (probably where I ought to have gone in the first place) and bought a replacement machine. I didn't really get a lot out of the last one but my sous-vide itch hadn't been fully scratched and I really wanted to see what this machine could do with a working thermostat.

I've now spent a few days with the new unit trying to get to grips with it and while there are many positives to be drawn from my experiences, there are one or two niggles which may well result in me sending this one back. So far it has not been anything electrical at fault; more to do with the actual design of the unit and that bloody stupid lid I mentioned in a previous post.

Anyway, I digress. If anyone is really interested I'll put together a comprehensive review of the SousVide Supreme along with some proper photographs when I have time to do both those things justice.

For now though, I thought some of you may appreciate some poor-quality phone pictures of something I was messing around with earlier.

What we have here is a somewhat unappetising-looking piece of pork fillet having been cooked for 2 hours at 58ºC, taken out of the bath and patted dry with some paper towel:

YqasH.jpg

However, one hot pan and some vegetable oil later; it carves into this:

JsmYM.jpg

Melt in the mouth tender pork fillet, perfectly cooked through and packed full of flavour. I've never tasted anything like it - this machine could just well find a permanent spot in my kitchen after all...
 
Would be interested. Do you think it's something you'll get a lot of use out of?
Absolutely.

Mostly that's because now I've tasted food cooked with this thing I don't really want to go back to anything else. I'm hooked.

But it also fits in really well with my cooking style. I can get in from work, get the SVS up to temperature, pop in a bag of food or three and get on with the rest of my afternoon before it's time to cook.

Okay, it's not going to be for everybody and it's somewhat useless for knocking up a quick dinner (unless we're talking fish, which is very quick) but if you've got time to plan these things through it works really well. I'm actually surprised at just how seamlessly it fits into my usual routine.

The only thing I need to figure out is whether making up a load of bags ready to cook at a later date is a good idea. Ideally you'd want to season the protein you're using before sealing the bag, but I'm not sure if doing this well in advance of cooking it would be a good thing or a bad thing.
 
Having had a look at what prices are like nowadays - you can get a Polyscience Immersion Circulator for around £500 if you shop around. To me that looks a much better bet than an SVS?
Not to me.

If I had my way, and I could justify the expense, I'd have a Clifton Unstirred Digital Bath (either 8 or 14 litre) as that's what I've had previous experience with, but I really think the SVS is the next best thing to that.

The biggest problem with the Polyscience model is that you've got to find some sort of tank or container to use it with. On the upside it can be used with virtually anything, but that's still an additional expense. And then you've got to find somewhere to store the pieces and assemble them each time you want to use it.

What I like (and am growing to love) about the SVS is that it sits on my kitchen worktop, tucked away in the corner, taking up about the same space as a microwave or a bread maker would. And I can happily leave it full of water and ready to use, something that I don't see as being possible with the Polyscience unit.

Obviously that has portability that the SVS doesn't, but I'm not really planning on taking it anywhere - but if I did, it's just a matter of decanting the water into two large bottles, packing the unit away and off you go.
 
Interesting - my mate was telling me earlier he had similar experiences when he had an IC in that you had the container problem. I thought there would be some kind of container accessory to the Polyscience that would be reasonably priced but that doesn't seem to be the case!
In theory it's a great idea, in reality you need to find a suitable vessel to pair it with.

The general idea with an IC is that it would be used in a professional kitchen and they'd have a ready supply of suitable Gastronorm Containers to pair with the unit. Those of us without a fully-stocked kitchen to play with would need to buy one, but they're readily available from most kitchen equipment suppliers.

However, the stainless steel units aren't very large - certainly nothing like the size of the SVS unit, which is pretty much ideal. You can get polycarbonate Gastronorm Containers with more suitable dimensions, but I'd have thought you'd be losing a lot of heat from one of those.

Storage wise I still think it would have some benefits though given it wouldn't be too big. I'd like to see some comparisons in terms of energy usage though.
There's certainly a size advantage and it packs away neatly into that little briefcase, but the benefits of the SVS outweigh any of the negatives when it comes to size, at least for me.

And the additional benefit of it being an all-in-one unit that is always ready for action just seals the deal even further.

In terms of energy usage and the SVS, according to one Mr H M Blumenthal of Bray, Berkshire; 'once it's brought up to temperatures, it uses power at a rate of 60 watts', which is good to know.

I'd like to do my own tests, but I've got no idea how to go about that. Anyone able to lend me a set of those energy monitors?
 
Last edited:
Masterchef stuff
Very interesting - thanks for taking the time to explain. I may well ask if I can pick your brains on that subject at a later date.

I'd love to try some Sous Vide cooked food. There are some amazing looking recipes in Heston's book.
Do the Cool Box version first; it works just as well as you'll need it to and it's a lot of fun to play around with.

You will need an accurate temperature probe though - I'd strongly recommend a Thermapen as it will serve you for years to come.

I'm still unsure if it's just a fad or if it's really going to start coming into peoples houses like microwaves did.
I honestly think it will start to find a way into more and more homes as knowledge on the subject increases, but I doubt it will ever become as ubiquitous as the microwave.

It won't be widespread until costs of the units come down, and companies start making ready meals for them.
I'd say this was pretty much spot-on.

Waitrose are certainly one of the supermarkets stocking an increasing amount of food that is ready to cook sous-vide, albeit apparently unintentionally, but there's a long way to go yet.

I know a couple of guys who are trying to introduce a range of gourmet ready meals that can be cooked sous-vide if you choose (namely by vac-packing everything for reasons of freshness and convenience) but they're not getting much support from the retailers.
 
One nice bit of rump - ready to christen my Sous Vide with :D

Will let you know how it turns out!
Well done, that man. Which model did you go for?

And I notice you've done it properly and gone down the vac-pack route as well - which unit did you pick up for that?
 
From what i've read, i need to do that bit of rump steak "24-48 hours" (although some places have said 90 mins - 12 hours!). Very confusing!
I would have said you are in danger of the whole thing turning into mush if you cook it for that long.

56º for around 3 hours should suffice. And certainly no more than 8.

Our Rump is closest to American Sirloin. Their Round is closer to our Topside or Silverside.
 
Alas, no. Rump is really one of those cuts where it could go either way.

With the quality of meat that we get in this country and how it tends to have been prepared and aged, I'd still stand by my claim that Rump was closer to American Sirloin in terms of texture, flavour and consistency.

Americans would swear blind it was closer to (or the same as) a Top Round, but I can't see that - it would have to be a really ropy piece of Rump to be that tough.

I know an American butcher so I'll give him a call tomorrow and ask. He's been in the country for over 20 years and specialises in American beef cuts, so if anyone will know; he will.
 
I'm with you - in all the books and articles i've been reading, they refer to rump as really tough.. which (im my mind) doesn't really tally up with "our" rump! Sure it's a bit tougher than Sirloin, but it's hardly on a par with brisket.
I spoke with him this morning and he says it's "complicated".

He confirmed that Americans refer to 'Top Round' or 'Top Butt' when they talk about a steak that would more or less be considered the equivalent of our Rump, but was a bit baffled by suggestions of its toughness and suggests that might be due to a number of factors, but most probably the location the steak was butchered from and how it has been cut.

He's pretty sure that a decent quality Rump steak would be cut from closer to the hip of the cow and that an average quality Top Butt would be from somewhere on the the rump of the animal, but admitted this is all down to the butcher in question and a lot still depends on the quality of the beef.

As far as a definitive answer goes, I got: "It's a steak. not a joint. Cook it like a steak".
 
Back
Top Bottom