Man of Honour
Not really, they're both the same outcome, the latter being more enjoyable for Alonso fans.
Sparky-F1
- Thread starter mjt
- Start date
Not really, they're both the same outcome, the latter being more enjoyable for Alonso fans.
The attitude has always been like this to Red Bull. It's typical fan boy stuff.
Ferrari open Massa's Gearbox is a tactical decision.
Red Bull demoting Vettel to the pit lane to change ratios is cheating.
Both within the rules, just like Red Bull's car. But when Red Bull push the boundaries, it's cheating. When everyone else copies, it's fine.
I'm not going to lie, I like Vettel and the Red Bull Team a lot. But I like people/teams to be treated fairly too.
Ferrari open Massa's Gearbox is a tactical decision.
Red Bull demoting Vettel to the pit lane to change ratios is cheating.
Both within the rules, just like Red Bull's car. But when Red Bull push the boundaries, it's cheating. When everyone else copies, it's fine.
I'm not going to lie, I like Vettel and the Red Bull Team a lot. But I like people/teams to be treated fairly too.
I don't think most people really had that much hatred for Vettel. It just became the 'done thing' to fire abuse at him. Seeing as most people were doing it, it became really easy for others to just join in and it escalated from there. I doubt very much that many of the comments would have been made in isolation.
Soldato
Not the point.
But not all that enjoyable for an employee of the team who Vettel drives for, and I would refute the suggestion that any true fan of Alonso's (and Motor Racing in general) would want to see him win the title because his main rival got clobbered or put the car into a wall. Surely we want to see titles decided on track, may the best man win and all that....
If folks on here really don't understand why Sparky would get a bit miffed at calls for Vettel to crash/get taken out/fail to finish, then it's about time for a sanity check in this place.
Having met Sparky at the Silverstone F1 test in 2008, I can assure you he works for them (Horner came up to us and acknowledged his work in the factory). He is a decent bloke and is just as passionate about the sport and his team (company) than anyone. It must be pretty hard to have people attacking this, but that is how things go really.
I hope he is back next year.
I hope he is back next year.
Soldato
That was part of our argument as well actually, that if you're in a field of industry, it tends to be worth staying away from the Internet discussion on topic, due to it having people who think they know lots, but probably don't, or saying something just offensive to you and your workload.
I don't think it was even abuse (at vettel). People generally believed Alonso deserved it more, and wanted him to win. There was some irrational comments, but there were plenty made in jest, it was certainly hard I guess in some cases to differentiate though.
Ultimately though, he was on the wrong side of a debate from a numbers perspective, and over reacted massively.
kd
Man of Honour
Soldato
Don't know why people say alonso deserved it more. Yea he drove the socks off that ferrari and he is up there as one of the best, if not the best driver on the grid. But he was only up there because of other drivers dnfs. I think anybody that was up there with vettle would have deserved it more going by the forums remark over the last few races.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
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- 46,247
This tbh.
Man of Honour
He must be pretty soft if a few anti Vettel comments made him spit his dummy out and ask to be banned.
I don't think it was the anti Vettel comments.
It was more the anti 'everything he has worked hard to help achieve over the last few years and is likely very proud of' comments.
Most if us think our jobs are nothing but a means to an end, but for the few people who really enjoy theirs I can imagine walking into a forum full of people wishing all your hard work to fall apart around you just out of petty spite might rub you the wrong way a bit.
I think he's incredibly lucky to have a job he is obviously so passionate about.
Like JRS said, if you can't see how this forum would have got to him then I think you need to think a bit harder about it.
It was more the anti 'everything he has worked hard to help achieve over the last few years and is likely very proud of' comments.
Most if us think our jobs are nothing but a means to an end, but for the few people who really enjoy theirs I can imagine walking into a forum full of people wishing all your hard work to fall apart around you just out of petty spite might rub you the wrong way a bit.
I think he's incredibly lucky to have a job he is obviously so passionate about.
Like JRS said, if you can't see how this forum would have got to him then I think you need to think a bit harder about it.
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Soldato
I dont mind RB but i hate Vettel, he's had the fastest car for 3 seasons in a row, we seen this season at the start when it was probably 2nd fastest on the grid he struggled badly, i would like to see him do well in a car that wasn't the fastest on the grid and maybe i would stop hating him.
Soldato
My biggest problem with RBR and Vettel is that they seem to get away with so many things that most other teams/drivers wouldn't, that it is frustrating. RBR design a car with holes in the floor that although not illegal by the "letter" of the law, was too close to the line to be fair. They then design a car with a hidden ride height adjustment switch. How did that not incur a massive penalty for just being there, even if never used?
Then you have Vettel taking out both Senna and Perez in Brazil, without any penalty. Do you not think all of the guys in the Sauber and Williams factories are not just as passionate about their team as Sparky. How do you think they felt when they saw their cars and drivers get taken out?
Like I say, if he can't realise this as an Internet forum, then he can't really moan when some trolls post flamebait.
I have seen Vettel as a spoiled child on many occasions throwing tantrums when anything goes wrong. Seems this is a streak running right through RBR.
Then you have Vettel taking out both Senna and Perez in Brazil, without any penalty. Do you not think all of the guys in the Sauber and Williams factories are not just as passionate about their team as Sparky. How do you think they felt when they saw their cars and drivers get taken out?
Like I say, if he can't realise this as an Internet forum, then he can't really moan when some trolls post flamebait.
I have seen Vettel as a spoiled child on many occasions throwing tantrums when anything goes wrong. Seems this is a streak running right through RBR.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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- 33,188
No, underfueling the car was cheating, taking it into the pit to make changes as it was going to start from the back was simply sensible. People not fawning over what is a car that blows away every car maybe 8 cars backwards, getting past those with little problem, and almost everyone with any speed, from what 4th to 12th, crashing and having problems in the race meaning he didn't have to pass any of them.... boo hoo.
Mclown underfuelled a car, idiots, both cases I think were more accidents, and not cheating per say, though Mclown had such a monumentally stupid lead it was almost unforgiveable.
I love Red Bull's innovation, flexi wings were impressive, rubber nosed tilt wings are pretty epic.... but ultimately they are breaking the rules.
The car and driver package deserved the title over Ferrari's package, doesn't mean you can't say Alonso did better than Vettel. For me though the Red Bull package, involved a dominant car that at least to some degree was dominant because it was breaking the rules. Every rule basically says, RIGID wing, they have anything but a rigid wing, just one that passes the pretty lame tests. Its an illegal car, flat out, that can pass tests that don't test to the rules, they test to a degree of the rules.
Ultimately with the same rules they could have a complex testing rig that pushes loads on the wing in different ways and that wing WOULD have failed and been deemed illegal. The test isn't the rule, its a test, the rule is clear as day, they break the rule, pass the test.
I love innovation, but everyone has to play by the same rules, or its just not a competition. Mclaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Merc, or HRT could all be breaking more or just the same rules as Red Bull.... but ultimately on camera, watching the car we can physically see something massive the Red Bull are cheating on.
Should a car that clearly breaks the rigid wing rules.... deserve to win a constructors, because the FIA are too stupid to create a test that shows how clearly it breaks the rules? For me, no, speed, driver, package, ignoring rules, Ferrari didn't deserve squat, considering the flagrant rule breaking, RBR deserved nothing.
Alonso had either none, or few DNF's from the front of the grid. Hamilton I don't think had any races where a DNF ahead gifted him a win, Vettel I think had one or two(Hamilton once, maybe another one or two?), a huge portion of ALonso's points and wins came from faster cars quite easily beating the Ferrari, failing.
The way I see it is, in qualifying and on track, RBR and Mclaren won more races, while Ferrari were given more points by others failure than their ability to beat those cars in actual racing. Reliability is a big thing in racing but it still feels like he was given more points than he won.
Permabanned
I don't know the guy, but he seemed like he did a Vettel 
Soldato
Red Bull had a hidden ride height switch? 