Speaker cables?!?

Man of Honour
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Of course you can. Lots of claims/beliefs can be objectively tested. If someone believes that some magical pebble placed on their system enhances the sound then you can test that... I'd suspect that the person won't be able to perceive the difference in sound in a blind test.

No, there's a difference.

A claim is something that can be tested against. A claim is generally something one person is asking another person to accept.

A belief is something different. It's something individual to that person. It doesn't matter how much logic and objective testing you throw at someone's beliefs, you won't change their mind unless they're willing to be persuaded. But if they're not, then nothing you can do will alter their belief, and the harder you try then the more they'll dig in.

People have all sorts of weird beliefs about gods. Have you ever tried changing a zealot's belief in their God?

Do you see?
 
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Caporegime
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Well no.

You've mentioned a belief in god, well that usually doesn't involve any falsifiable claim, it tends to involve some belief or claim which cannot be tested. God is usually a rather ill defined and abstract concept.

A belief that X product makes a difference to the sound can be tested, that belief involves a falsifiable claim being made. You stated it was a matter of perception and you asked who was right, well if there is a falsifiable claim there then that simply depends on whether the claim can be supported.

I think what you're confusing perhaps is beliefs or claims which can be tested with subjective preferences, like someone who isn't claiming there is any improvement or difference in sound but, for example, just likes having expensive cables/other gear etc... because it makes them feel good etc.... I mean short of an MRI scan you're not going to verify that and indeed I'm happy to accept that it is likely true that people derive some satisfaction from simply owning some of this gear.

As soon as you get into claims being made or a belief being stated about X actually making a difference to the sound etc.. though then you're into something that can be tested.
 
Associate
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Well no.

You've mentioned a belief in god, well that usually doesn't involve any falsifiable claim, it tends to involve some belief or claim which cannot be tested. God is usually a rather ill defined and abstract concept.

A belief that X product makes a difference to the sound can be tested, that belief involves a falsifiable claim being made. You stated it was a matter of perception and you asked who was right, well if there is a falsifiable claim there then that simply depends on whether the claim can be supported.

I think what you're confusing perhaps is beliefs or claims which can be tested with subjective preferences, like someone who isn't claiming there is any improvement or difference in sound but, for example, just likes having expensive cables/other gear etc... because it makes them feel good etc.... I mean short of an MRI scan you're not going to verify that and indeed I'm happy to accept that it is likely true that people derive some satisfaction from simply owning some of this gear.

As soon as you get into claims being made or a belief being stated about X actually making a difference to the sound etc.. though then you're into something that can be tested.


Problem is the internet, and those raging foromites always wanting to prove something.

I gave up on high end audio because I got sick of the foo and how pathetic the labelling forum members who heard a difference got.

Fact, not all cables are made the same, LCR values are not black and white, and audio isnt fixed 1m runs on a test bench.

Im not a fan of cables, did the high end cables and even Mana racks stuff. I actually cant stand Chord, because plated copper sucks, silver phonos tarnish, and banana plugs bend.

Sold a 4.5m pair of Chord Signature to give my son spending money on a school holiday to France.

Love balanced cables but sick of Krell kit just failing when japanese mid level kit still works flawless.

Yeah one proof was an integrated amp clip point with VDH D352 and the fact that there was a few more clicks on the volume before clipping occured with Naim Nac 5.

Early Naim amps going bang with exotic cables.
So much stuff when everyone was trying to make things sound different or "better".


When all we want when we get older is solid dependable audio kit with simple well made components such as the old Neutrik pro RCA plugs, XLR, and spades.

Im old n grumpy lol
 
Soldato
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You'll find them ordinary folk, and just as convinced that these products make a difference to their systems as those here are convinced that there is none. It's all a question of perspective.

Put it another way, out of every hundred people you meet, how many do you think really give two figs about graphics cards or speakers or NAS drives? One, two maybe? The rest probably think we're all potty to spend what we do. To them there's no benefit in any of this. So who's right?

Eh?

There's a measurable benefit of buying a more expensive graphics card, more FPS.

Faster drives load things more quickly.

These are all rational reasons to spend more money to improve the performance.

Spending £25 on a fuse and a burn in service that is such a dark art they don't even try and explain what the process is, that's not rational.
 
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Eh?

There's a measurable benefit of buying a more expensive graphics card, more FPS.

Faster drives load things more quickly.

These are all rational reasons to spend more money to improve the performance.

Spending £25 on a fuse and a burn in service that is such a dark art they don't even try and explain what the process is, that's not rational.

Exactly. Paying £25 for a 5 amp fuse is bonkers, paying extra to have it "burned in" is lunacy. I'd love to hear an explanation on how a "Super Fuse" makes an audible difference in a HiFi system over a normal fuse. And once that's been explained, how "burning in" the fuse makes even more difference.
 
Soldato
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I don't understand how bullocks like that is legal to sell. I've also seen a 13 amp socket extension for 1500 quid that improves audio as well. I agree about the snake oil.

https://www.google.com/search?q=adv...rome..69i57.6055j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The ASA has had a few things to say about their adverts!

Adequately thick cable is all you need. I normally get the basic cable from a known manufacturer such as QED, Fisual, Van Damme, Chord etc, as I think the quality of the sheath etc is a bit better and it's nicer to look at, but I'm a) under no illusion it will sound better and b) it's only marginally more expensive.

Eg I went for this in my in wall installation, but as I bought a reel, I just use it throughout - https://www.hificables.co.uk/product/2590/qed-qx16-2-lszh-2-core-speaker-cable/ In a fetching pink too!
 
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Soldato
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My 7.2.4 setup uses cheapest, good ofc cable as I have about 150m of wire in my lounge which quickly adds up. It's good quality and the electrons move along it just fine:)

Don't buy into the snake oil.
 
Soldato
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Buy some Sommer or Van Damme 2.5mm cable and be done with it.

Spend extra money on setting up your system properly and some tactically placed room treatments. These make a measurable difference that can easily be heard, silly cables just line the pockets of the manufacturer/seller.
 
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I can't believe people think the phenomena of 'burn in' actually exits and is not them just getting used to the sound of a setup and/or psychology associated with perceiving a change over time.
 
Soldato
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I've got to admit, those cables while expensive, they've got the market spiel right. I guess they're aimed at rich people and the 10% of your system on cables rule.
 
Soldato
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Regarding speaker cables, don't confuse the ridiculous priced cable with good quality pure copper 2.5 or 4mm such as Amazon sell.

Providing you have sufficient resolution in the rest of your system, then often changing from the cheaper 'thinner' cable, to pure copper in 2.5mm or above will give an improvement.

Also 'burn-in' on speakers does exist as the speaker fabric stretches the first hours or days of use, this is why new speakers should be run at gentle volume initially.
 
Soldato
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I worked in an electronics bay which had some pretty sophisticated equipment for testing cables for Aircraft. I tested all sorts of cables including some super expensive speaker cables like those above and the differences between a basic copper cable was pretty much nothing and sometimes the expensive cables were even worse than basic cables.

I worked out that the super nice expensive copper cable used on Aircraft made exceptionally good speaker cable so I used that..... lol
 
Soldato
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This stuff from TLC is plenty good enough...

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CASPEAK79.html

It is CCA (Copper Clad Aluminium) but you won't hear a difference. I've run it on really rather long runs around my house in the walls, and it's all perfect.

Just picking up on this.

I purchased some 2.5mm CCA cable by mistake a few years, i'll be honest it was pretty good cable. From my assessment the 2.5mm CCA (that I purchased) was on par with some thinner pure copper cable I already owned.

However I then changed to some 4mm pure copper DCSK cable, I A / B'd the cable for 3 days, including listening at night time. Basically the pure copper is better then the CCA.

So yes, for most people CCA will be perfectly fine, however it's not as good as pure copper.

This is the DCSK cable i'm referring to, this stuff is amazing cable look at the reviews.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DCSk-10-lo...30&s=gateway&sprefix=dcsk,aps,136&sr=8-3&th=1
 
Soldato
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I'm about to pull the trigger on this cable as i need some for my new 5.1 setup i just got. Do i really need 4mm? The longest run from the app is going to be 10-11 meters for the rear speakers and the rest is going to be 1-2meters for the rest. Would the 2.5mm be the same sound quality?
 
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