Spec me a subwoofer to go with tannoy eclipse 5.0

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Currently have 5.0 tannoy eclipse speakers, Denon 2400 amp and no sub. Would like the sub to be black oak if possible to fit in. Budget could go up to 3 to £400 but I've seen a couple at £200ish? Willing to go 2nd hand but haven't seen much, plus long warranties on some from new.

My living room is quite large but don't expect a sub to fill all of it (effectively split living/dining room), all in about 4metres by 7metres at biggest points.

Dont tend to notice much lack of base but would like one for the lower end. I'd like it roughly around 400x400x400 ish but

Supposedly the best "cheap" sub but 8" driver

https://www.richersounds.com/cambridge-sx120-sub-blk.html?nosto=productpage-nosto-1

Also quite liked the look of this. 10" sub but seems low wattage
https://petertyson.co.uk/index.php/monitor-audio-mrw-10?___SID=U

Any ideas?
 
New?: BK Electric.

The BK Double Gem is a slim profile twin driver sub (2x10" drivers). Price £379 in gloss black.

Then there's the more conventional 10" single driver BK sub called the XLS200 for £330


With BK you're buying direct from the factory. This is the company that has been (or still is) making subs for REL and other very well regarded and far more expensive brands. BK is excellent product but without the normal retail dealer price premium.


Your list?:

The Cambridge Audio SX120 - an inexpensive basic sub. Not tremendously powerful at only 70W for the internal amp. It would be fine for adding a bit of rumble to movies but if you can afford to spend more then you'll get significantly better performance from something designed at a higher price point.

MRX10 - IMO a better product than the SX120 and worth the extra £50. Pros: comes from a company that established its reputation in the Hi-Fi market and that produces some reasonably high-end speakers. The design ethos trickles down. This is a sub that'll make a decent stab at music as well as some rumble for movies. Cons: Though a 10" driver it's still only a 100W amp. That's okay for smaller rooms where the sub won't have to be on that loud to pressurise the room and create the impression of a decent bass level. It might struggle in a larger room and end up running out of steam even to keep up with the main speakers at moderate volume levels.
 
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Thanks @lucid and @hornetstinger

Would be going beside the front right speaker below (old pic and new centre on top of AV unit)

In that area would the mx10 suffice (approx 3m wide by 3.6m viewing distance to tv)

Would the bk bk double gem be better than bk XXLS400?

Also seen the monitor audio mass w200 which looks quite in imposing, is that a step up from previous at ~ £300?

wIoKI16.jpg
 
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Think I'll go for bk xxls 400 or bk double gem. Is there much in it between them?
@lucid
Only concern is 2 year warrantee, but I presume subs are built to last? (others I've seen have 5 years)
 
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If you had a wall enclosing the area to 3m wide x 3.8m x room height then you might be able to get away with a smaller and less powerful sub. The thing is though that your room is open plan. The room's volume of air determines the sound pressure that can be generated within it. The bigger the space then the louder the system (sub in this case) has to run to create what we perceive as a decent level of sound.

There's nothing to stop you using the MRX10 in your room, but I'd be surprised if the driver didn't end up bottoming out if you're listening at enthusiast levels. It's easy to turn down a sub that too big for a room, but impossible to make an under-powered sub do the work of something better.

According to some stuff I've read, the Double Gem is about on par with the XXLS400. That makes sense. BK had had requests for a sub with XXLS400 performance but that would fit in the floor space of an XLS200. That's pretty much what the Double Gem is.

The Mass W200 sub uses 200W (peak?) amp to drive a 10" long throw* driver. It is complimented by a 10" passive radiator. If you're not sure what that is, from the outside it looks like another bass driver, but inside you'd see that there's no magnet and driver coil assembly. It can't be connected to a power amp; hence it is passive.

With a single bass driver, when the sub driver is moving in the opposite direction to the bass cones in your Tannoys we'd call that 'being out of phase'. The result you'd hear if you left it like that is weak bass because one movement cancels the other. This is why subs have a Phase switch on the back.

In a sub or any speaker with a passive radiator, the air pressure inside the sealed cabinet causes the passive driver to move in the opposite direction by roughly the same amount. In this way, the acoustic effect of main bass cone moving backward is counteracted by the passive radiator moving forwards. There's always a positive movement of a bass cone going forward.

Passive radiators aren't a complete win win solution though. Because it's not driven, the bass pulse isn't as strong as the main powered driver pulse. For that reason, the contribution from passive radiator is counted as ½ (half) compared to 1 from a driven speaker cone. Also, for a passive radiator to work, the speaker can't be a bass reflex unit for the powered driver. It has to be a sealed chamber. Bass reflex gives the designer the opportunity to get more 'thump' from a given size driver/amp/box combo. But it's at the expense of speed and tunefulness. However, make the cabinet large enough and use a big enough driver and potent amp then the limits of a sealed design are largely outweighed by the benefits. That's what (IMO) makes the BKs so popular. Their performance punches well above their price point.

The story with the bigger subs is about having one large box capable of pressuring a room. The larger the box and amp then the bigger the driver; and the bigger the driver then the more air it can shift. But there is another way...

The Double Gem uses two 10" drivers. These have combined surface area as one 14" driver. Although a 14" driver will go to lower frequencies, it's much harder to power it, it needs a much bigger box, and it's harder to keep the bass from it tight and tuneful. If you're trying to pressurise a large area but not so bother about shaking the foundations of the building then two smaller subs could prove to be far easier to accommodate. This is along the same lines of thinking as BK. They did tests with two Geminis (10", sealed box, 150W RMS rather than peak power) and found the results very similar to one XXLS400. That's how the Double Gem idea was born.

Geminis also have a very clever dual input crossover. This lets them work at speaker level fed directly from a parallel speaker connection at the amp that draws no power, and at the same time they can run from the LFE output of an AV receiver. In effect, that's like upgrading your main speakers to something with 10" drivers and having a subwoofer as well.


* Long Throw drivers move more air thanks to the larger cone excursion on each bass pulse. This tech has been around for quite some time.
 
If BK had a big problem with reliability, you'd find out very quickly from the internet forums. I haven't seen any significant issues with BK.
 
Thanks for a once again clear explanation @lucid. Went for the bk double gem

Probably a dumb question but is the phono to phono lead it comes with all I need to plug it in? (have Denon 2400 amp)
 
I’ve had my BK XXLS for at least 10 years now and touch wood, it’s never given me any problems. It is built to last, very heavy and well made.
 

I almost got the monolith but there are 2 reasons why I didn’t.

1 - I listen to some music so a closed box is more suitable.
2 - the height of the monolith is a bit taller. The XXLS is like a corner table height and you can use it as a table, get a piece of glass with rubber feet and put on top of it and no one would be wiser so it blends in the room better.

Price wasn’t an issue and they are both powerful enough for home. In fact I run mine at like 10 o’clock position, it goes from 8 to 4 on the dial so I’m hardly pushing it.
 
Actually it's not phono. Phono is phono graph so input is very low level, that requires phonograph stage pre amplification either moving magnet or moving coil with riia equlsation ideally with sub sonic anti thump filter.

You need a single RCA to RCA cable. If you have a AV amplifier then you use one RCA cable. If you've got a stereo amplifier you use stereo RCA or stereo speaker cable (high level)

If you have a avr you want to bypass or maximise the crossover in your sub. If you're using a stereo amp the use the crossover in the sub.
 
Thanks for replies. Had pretty poor service from BK so far and since ordering 5th August haven't responded to either of my emails...

Got slightly frustrated and asked to cancel that and instead ordered a bk xxls 400 from ebay using 15% code :p (all in circa £410 so £20 more ish..)
 
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