Spec please: microphone for son's singing

[strumpusplunket]

My son is taking singing and guitar lessons (rock singing, electric and classical guitar) and his singing teacher suggested it would help if he had a decent microphone for singing - for online lessons and recording/practising. Currently he's using the built-in microphone on my laptop for his remote lessons, which I can well imagine is less-than-ideal.

This is all a bit new but it makes sense that, as he's quite committed to it, it would be good to him to have the equipment he needs. I have no idea where to even start with this, though. What kind of thing should I even start looking for? Any must have features? What are the key specs to look for? Is this likely to be expensive?

Obviously, just searching for this returns a metric ton of results and products but without knowing where to start I don't even know how to narrow it down.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[strumpusplunket]

The Fifine 669B seems to be the very well thought of budget option. Just ordered myself one from China so cannot personally comment on it yet. They are available at the rain forest site.

Cheers. I've bookmarked that one. Good to see it's not too expensive. I feared this might cost me a bit!

 

[strumpusplunket]

I'm heavily looking at mics myself at the moment, have a look at the Uhuru UM-980, full kit of mic, arm, stand, shock mount and pop filter for £73, from the listening I've done it's better than the fifine mics.

If your budget is higher then have a look at the Samson G Track Pro, you can plug in a guitar and select record 2 tracks on the mic, so he'll get the instrument on one track and his voice on another, it'll make recording and editing so much easier plus the mic quality is fantastic

Cheers. I've added these as well. Will need to talk it over with my wife and son and see what we think is the best balance of price to features, but...

The G Track Pro is a fantastic piece of kit, you'd probably need to look into a decent xlr setup to get better and it'd ultimately set you back more.

This option, whilst looking pretty cool, does seem like it would get expensive. I didn't really have a budget in mind, but nearing £200 just form the mic with possibly more to come is a bit steeper than I thought it would go. Will think it over, though.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Appreciate the input here. I've been doing some reading based on searching for reviews of the models suggested and I'm picking up a few tidbits (I think...)

I hadn't considered whether or not I would need to think about phantom power or a pre-amp for instance. It looks like most of the models that aren't USB need phantom power, is that right? This would include the Shure model?

That would be another piece of kit I would need, which would inflate the price and also necessitate me learning something about what to look for in a pre-amp! BUT, it seems there would be more flexiblity in this setup, in that a USB-only mic that would only be good for connecting to the PC, but one with a standard connector he could then also take round to other places for rehearsal or performance. Am I off-base here?

The Q2U idea seems tempting since it looks like it would come ready-made for both uses without needing to buy a pre-amp for the PC.

Unless I'm just getting myself all confused?

 

[strumpusplunket]

No, phantom power is basically for condensor microphones.
The Shure's will just plug into an XLR input.
If you want a cheap excellent audio interface to plug into a PC the Behringer Q502USB will do the job, in fact they do a smaller one but make sure it's USB.

Also if it's a one off buy then then most of the other mic's linked to won't be able to be used on stage if he wants to go in that direction..

Great. Thanks for your input. This is really helpful.

So, just to clarify - with the Shure, would I need the audio interface just for him recording singing on the PC? Or could it just connect to the audio in on the onboard sound?

 

[strumpusplunket]

I started off with a CAD U1 USB for my audio setup whilst I was still getting used to recording and adapting my environment to better manage the sound, then I upgraded to a Floureon BM-800 XLR microphone with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Solo interface when I started to get a bit more serious with recordings and started doing recordings for work.

I've since upgraded my regular microphone for the more basic recordings and for general chatting on my PC whilst I play games is a Rode NT1-A, then for the more serious vocal recordings for my work I have the Heil PR-40.
For an XLR microphone, you will need a dedicated XLR audio interface.
You can often get starter ones for around £60-70 which will have a single input, or ones with dual input for both a microphone and musical instrument at the same time which are usually around £100-110 for a good starting one.

Ah, I see. Cheers.

So, it's looking like a couple of hundred quid for both mic and interface. Not too bad, I suppose. He'd better keep up the interest in singing once we get all this, though!

 

[strumpusplunket]

Yes, I must admit that I am a little bit torn. There's some attraction to the idea of a cheaper initial setup and then seeing how far he wants to take things. But then he has been taking singing lessons and singing with his band for a good while now so I'm fairly confident it's not a passing fad.

So that raises the possibility of buying cheaper meaning buying twice once he's able to pick up rehearsing and performing again (something we are keen to encourage, tbh). I think the Shure has a built-in pop shield, but I'd need to check. Doing some initial price scoping, it looks like a mic and interface could be had for around £150-160ish, which isn't too bad. If they do hold their value then that's a bonus too.

His bedroom is a decent sized room with loads of stuff on the walls already, so I wouldn't think sound reverberation would be a huge problem, but I'll bear the idea of wall panels in mind too.

 

[strumpusplunket]

A mic and sound card at ~£160 total suggests you're probably buying very entry level stuff anyway, which if he gets into it proper you'll be replacing again. Makes more sense to get a cheap USB condenser for now as that is perfectly sufficient for the use cases described in the OP, and if he gets into it to the point where he wants to record vocals for a song he wants to release "officially", that is the point where spending money makes sense.

I was looking at the Shure SM58 and the Behringer interface mentioned above. It looks like I could get both for £150 if they come into stock at some of the cheaper places. I was hoping they were decent bets since they come well-recommended here.

 

[strumpusplunket]

The Behringer stuff is OK, but the build quality is poor and the preamps are not great. Its cheap though so what do you expect. The SM58 is a versatile microphone, relatively cheap and very rugged which makes it ideal for live vocal work, but for studio style vocal work a condenser will be a better choice.

Thanks. I will have a think about all this. It's quite tricky to know where to pitch the outlay versus longevity and we're not totally clear where his singing and playing will lead in the next year or two.

At the very least, though, I've learned a decent amount from this thread and feel like I'm at least getting a field of possible options together.

 

[strumpusplunket]

With an adapter you could plug the mic into your onboard sound, my singer does this when we are jamming on Jamulus (this is where my 5 piece band can rehearse over the internet) however I would advise something like I mentioned above like the Behringer Q302USB. I use a Focusrite 18i8.
I have a brand new Q502USB still fully boxed that works perfectly that I'm getting rid of at some point. I used it for about a month but then realised I needed a lot more inputs.
Behringer used to be poor until the Germans took over a few years ago.

Cheers.

We've actually found a Behringer microphone in the house! It's an Ultravoice XM8500, so it has an XLR output and it doesn't require phantom power.

We will probably make do with this for the time being and then think about upgrading the mic in the future if needs be, but what we need to figure out now is the best and most economcial way for him to get the mic connected to his PC.

The Behringer USB mixer would work for that, but what would be an ideal set-up would be something that allows him to connect his guitar and mic at the same time. I assume the Q302 could do this, but it doesn't look like it has a phono jack input for his guitar. Would we need another connector or adapter for that?

Also, we only have an XLR to jack cable for the mic, so I guess we need a proper XLR cable?

 

[strumpusplunket]

Sounds like what you want is a USB interface with min 2 channels.
Focusrite are one of the go-to options but they cost a lot (£200 for the two-channel option).
This is a more budget friendly option with two XLR-jack combo ports and two channels (so you can plug in via either the jack or the XLR option) https://www.gak.co.uk/en/presonus-audiobox-usb-96/908317.
If this is something he's really going to get into consider buying a 4 channel thing now and it will give a lot more future flexibility.

[...]

For really detailed recording you need condensing mics, with cradle shock-mount and pop shields. A good starter is the Rode NT-1A kit. You'll also want a quiet room as it will pick up everything.

As a general rule condensing mics usually require phantom power. Dynamic mics usually do not.

Cheers for all the detail!

So, I couldn't just use a quarter-jack to RCA lead to go from his guitar amp to the Behringer mixer's inputs? A shame if not as that would be a nice budget-friendly option.

If, I will maybe have a look for a mixer wtih two XLR/jack inputs and USB out as you suggest.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Nowhere near, a Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen is available for around £140 delivered.

That's also pretty pricey, though. Are there any recommendations in the £50-60 price range like the Behringer USB mixer than could take a mic and guitar input (I am assumign the guitar input would come from the amp rather than the guitar itself - I really don't know anything about this kind of stuff...)

 

[strumpusplunket]

Does his amplifier have a line output? Many amps do. Quick look at the spec of the Q502USB, you would not be able to plug a guitar directly into channels 2/3/4/5 without using a DI box, but you could use a line out from an amplifier.

Yeah, it does. It looks like the inputs on the USB mixer are RCA, so could I just use a 1/4-jack to RCA lead from the amp line out to the 2/3/4 inputs on the mixer?

 

[strumpusplunket]

Just seen this query. I can't say for definite without knowing all the specs, but my gut feel is no, the impedances probably won't match. I don't think this is a good idea. Those RCA connectors are to connect a cd player or the like, not the output from a guitar amp. Some amps have special speaker outputs to allow stereo amp configurations and these tend to come with warnings about what you connect to them as serious damage can result if you get it wrong.

Some portable amps do have RCA outputs of their own, in which case they would be fair game to connect RCA to RCA. Also something with a specific headphone out port could probably also be directed into the RCA connectors without too much risk, but I would resist plugging in a feed from "line level out" or "speaker output" etc without really understanding the impedances and checking nothing untoward will result.

What is the guitar amp he is using?

Thanks. This is the sort of thing I really know nothing about!

He has a Ross Fame amp (it is pretty damn old, back from when I briefly thought I might switch from classical to electric guitar as a teenager!), and also a Marshall portable battery-powered one. Both do have headphone outputs (as well as the line-out on the Ross amp), but they are 1/4-jack outputs and it looks like the inputs on the Behringer amp above are RCA (unless I'm wrong about that? Only going by the pictures, tbh).

Given this, any ideas what would be the cheapest and most straightforward way of getting both his mic and guitar to input into his PC for his lessons and potentially for recording?

 

[strumpusplunket]

A lot of this is above my head, but I am still not feeling any the wiser about the best way I should go about connecting a 1/4-jack headphone output to what look like RCA inputs on the USB mixer I've been looking at. Is it going to work if I get that, an XLR lead for the mic and a 1/4 to RCA lead for the amp output?

It would be great if this would work as it would just leave me needing to buy the mixer and a couple of cables, but if it won't work I may need to look at another mixer or amp.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Look at my picture in post 42, my guitars go into the 1/4" jacks on the mixer.
From the 1/4" jack output on the amp connect to a 1/4" jack on the mixer.
if there is a volume control for the 1/4" output on the amp turn it to low and slowly work your way up, you don't want to overload the inputs on the mixer.

Ah. I see there you have 1/4" inputs on your mixer. I was looking at the Q302USB, which looks like it has RCA only?

The 502 looks a much more straightforward option then. Not too much difference in price, either. Cheers. It looks like that should do the job we need.

Just one last question on that: I notice that the 502 has XLR and 1/4" inputs for the mic. Is there much difference in which I'd use for the Behringer Ultravoice mic? I only have a 1/4" cable at the moment, but could get an XLR one if it would work better.

Thanks for all your input on this!

 

[strumpusplunket]

You'll need an XLR cable, looking at the manual the jack connection is a line in only. You can only use one of these at a time on the channel strip, so while you're using the XLR (mic) input, you cannot use the line in on channel 1.

That's very helpful to know. Thanks!

 

[strumpusplunket]

I did suggest the Q302USB originally until I knew you also wanted a guitar inputted and then suggested the Q502USB which has one XLR for mic and 3 normal inputs.

And what Sonic says, use XLR for the mic.

If you are going to order make sure you get the USB.
Behringer recommend you use ASIO4ALL drivers to connect to the computer but I found their proper Behringer ones which were better for me.

I think I have it now.

Thanks for the heads-up on checking it's the USB version. I just had the non-USB one sitting in a shopping basket!!
You just saved me some hassle there!

Cheers!

 

[strumpusplunket]

Well, I placed my order last night for the Q502USB and some leads to connect everything together.

Many thanks for all your help with your replies, especially @SexyGreyFox who suggested this mixer. And all those who patiently helped me understand the ins and outs of connecting different inputs/outputs together.

Looks like it should be a good solution. Fingers crossed I can get it all working. I may well be back in this thread asking for help in a day or two...

 

[strumpusplunket]

I am indeed back with some noob questions!

The set-up works well using the mic in the XLR input. It sounds good and works fine in Windows (just using the existing USB audio drivers and it's showing us as MIC USB Codec in the sound settings).

Now, what I have no clue about is how to get his guitar working as well and what we do once we've got it working!

Presumably it should be connected from the line out connector on his amp? But then how can we record that and his voice at the same time? If there is sound from the amp won't it ruin the recording? But with the sound down on the amp he can't hear his playing.

But more importantly I can't see how to get his guitar channle actually picked up in Windows. I've opened Audacity and I don't even know what setting I need to use to make it register the inputs. Presumably it would need two channels?

Bascially - mic on its own is fine. Guitar as well, I am completely lost. I don't know the basics of where to even start! Is there a dummies guide to getting started with this? The included instructions don't really help at all.