SPEED CAMERA STATS ARE WRONG: OFFICIAL

cymatty

cymatty

cymatty

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http://pistonheads.com/speed/default.asp?storyId=15137

SPEED CAMERA STATS ARE WRONG: OFFICIAL
Case for speed cameras collapses amid shower of statistics



Gatso: no reason to existThe government's own statisticians have shown that its speed camera policies have no basis in fact. In practice, they don't save lives.

The UK's ever-expanding forest of speedtrap devices has been officially justified by an alleged concomitant fall in casualty figures. However, official stats watchdogs have shown that the numbers of those killed or seriously injured (KSI) haven't fallen during a period when the numbers of such devices have expanded rapidly.

Instead, KSIs have remained static, and are now rising.

At the same time as an 11 per cent cut in traffic police patrols, the numbers of people in hospital as a result of road accidents has increased, according to the Statistics Commission. The official figures are supplied by the police and not from hospitals. According to the commission, if this information were included, the numbers could be up to 50 per cent higher than claimed.

A briefing note from the Office of National Statistics voiced 'particular concern' on the part of national statistician Karen Dunhill that the Government is using the lower, police-supplied figures to measure whether it's hitting its target of a 40 per cent reduction by 2010 in KSIs.

The latest police KSI figures are about 59.4 people per 100,000 -- down from 85.9 per 100,000 a decade ago. But figures based on hospital admissions have remained broadly constant over the period at about 90 per 100,000.

This is in line with the detailed analysis of groups such as Safe Speed, which has highlighted the lack of hard evidence for the speed camera expansion policy.

And in June, a study by the prestigious British Medical Journal showed that official casualty figures are deeply flawed and, by implication, that the government's speed camera policy was based on false information.

A separate study by University College London and Swansea University called 'Under-reporting of Road Casualties' said the number seriously injured could be double the number recorded in police statistics, blaming 'mis-classifying or mis-recording' of injuries.

Safe Speed's Paul Smith said: "So now we see the truth. The roads are not getting safer. Government road safety policy is being sexed-up by dodgy statistics. The Department for Transport must immediately pull the plug on the failed and dangerous speed camera programme."
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Anyone else not surprised?
 
Those in the know have known them to be wrong for a long time! its obvious when you see no speed cameras on known dangerous roads, and cameras on non dangerous dual carrigeway that are shock horror busy!!
 
I find it interesting that PH are quoting statistics as an argument to play down someone else's statistics.
It's quite obvious that both sides are simply "optimising" the view of the statistics for their own benefit, pretty much making a mockery of both sides of the argument.
 
Having recently passed my test I can instantly see the problem with speed cameras. I think their useful in village areas, but the majority of times a sign post warning of a camera and the speed limit is more than enough to get most people to slow down a good amount.

Hate seeing all these camera that are just designed to generate money though. For example speed limit sign immeidatley followed by a speed camera... lamest things ever.

But does anyone know the actual answer?
 
z0mbi3 said:
But does anyone know the actual answer?
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In reality, probably not.
Whilst it may be possible to actually get a set of consistent stats, even that would completely ignore all of the outside variables, eg. is there a change in deaths on the road due to:
- increasingly safe cars lulling people into driving with less due care and attention
- increasing congestion
- changing social attitudes (e.g the increase in "road rage" leading to worse braking distances)
- changes in demographics (e.g. if the UK has really seen an influx of 1/2 million polish, some of whom will be drivers, just how many are skilled in driving on UK roads)

I simply refuse to believe that anyone can genuinely quantify the above implications on deaths on our roads, leaving us with "gut feel" of whether we think that they might make a difference.
My personal view is that they make bugger all difference to the number of actual accidents, though I do think that the might have actually slowed down average speeds of drivers, thus resulting in the accidents that do happen causing less damage.
 
z0mbi3 said:
For example speed limit sign immeidatley followed by a speed camera... lamest things ever.
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:s almost every speed camera has a reminder just before it, damn handy imo puts my mind at ease if i forget the speed limit :D

Tom.
 
I can't say I'm surprised - I've always maintained the opinion that they're there purely to generate revenue

Hiding cameras on bridges on dual carridgeways without warning signs is a prime example of this
 
needmorespeed said:
they'll probably say that there isn't enough cameras up yet and stick one on every road :rolleyes:
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Rolleyes, yeah, but if there were cameras on every road, no-one would ever speed, and deaths would fall. Without question.
 
Ste said:
Rolleyes, yeah, but if there were cameras on every road, no-one would ever speed, and deaths would fall. Without question.
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No thanks. There is nothing worse than those motorway roadwork speed cameras where you are glancing at your speedometer every 3 seconds. It might actually lead to more accidents.
 
Ste said:
Rolleyes, yeah, but if there were cameras on every road, no-one would ever speed, and deaths would fall. Without question.
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That would be correct, if speed was a principle cause of road accidents. Is it?

Inappropriate speed might be. What is inappropriate speed? Does 'one size fit all' in this argument?
 
shrek2 said:
No thanks. There is nothing worse than those motorway roadwork speed cameras where you are glancing at your speedometer every 3 seconds. It might actually lead to more accidents.
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Or maybe people would learn to control their speed more accurately, rather than what they decide to be appropriate. If someone is unable to maintain a pretty much constant speed without checking their speedo - you've gotta wonder what the rest of their driving is like!
 
JRS said:
That would be correct, if speed was a principle cause of road accidents. Is it?

Inappropriate speed might be. What is inappropriate speed? Does 'one size fit all' in this argument?
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speeed is not the casue of accidents, bad driving is. are you telling me the fact that I speed regularly meets I am going to die? without being big headed I'm a reasonably good rider/driver and I am much safer at well over the speed limit then some people are well under it. We need to educate drivers more, not brainwash people into thinking speed kills!
 
Ste said:
Rolleyes, yeah, but if there were cameras on every road, no-one would ever speed, and deaths would fall. Without question.
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Nice idea, but not quite true.
In practice, the scenario that's possible is say an electronically speed limited car, whereby you can't break the speed limit. Even that wouldn't stop several million numpties driving with no braking distance and also at innappropriate speeds for conditions (e.g. during icy or foggy conditions).

I'm quite sure that the general public are quite gormless enough to manage an accident unless you stuff them on a train.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Nice idea, but not quite true.
In practice, the scenario that's possible is say an electronically speed limited car, whereby you can't break the speed limit. Even that wouldn't stop several million numpties driving with no braking distance and also at innappropriate speeds for conditions (e.g. during icy or foggy conditions).

I'm quite sure that the general public are quite gormless enough to manage an accident unless you stuff them on a train.
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nail...head
 
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