Speedfit questions......

newbiejim

newbiejim

newbiejim

Soldato
Joined
22 Jun 2004
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2,693
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South Scotland
RIght...... just had new Vaillant Ecotec Plus 831 and all new radiators installed.............but guy who installed said existing 8mm microbore would be 'fine' (despite my concerns), anyways......now I find less than stellar performance, even boiler going into anti cycle mode and rads take a while to heat and possibly colder at bottom etc......tinterweb tells me 8mm microbore esp with this boiler can cause issues.....this in mind I am considering embarking on replacing the 8mm manifold and pipes to and from rads........


My plan is cut the main 22mm copper run and use 15mm speedfit to rads.

  • Is this ok/feasible to do?
  • What would be the best method? (speedfit manifold?)
  • Do I need collets(?) to connect 15mm speedfit to my existing Danfoss TRVs and lockshields at other side.
  • What are the caveats?
 
Cheers m8, so simply tee off the main 22mm copper to each rad?, not use manifold?, brass olives readily available?, I forgot to say microbore joins end of the 22m run via a manifold.
 
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Nightglow said:
Yes, bag of 100, £8:883p,15mm compression olives ref 78438 Toolstation.
Screwfix price £10.00p per bag of 100.

If you have two radiators close together, could use a manifold, they are expensive at nearly £12 each, plus you will need to blank off unused outlets,also you need to factor in cost of 90 degree Speedfit bends, as you not be able to get a decent curve with speedfit pipe alone.

That is why I suggest using copper if your confident with a blow torch, as it might work out cheaper.
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divuk83 said:
Just use copper solder ring fittings, you don't even have to be particularly confident with a blow torch to use them.

Dave
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Thanks guys, you're correct I'm considering speed fit primarily to avoid learning to use copper on the job so to speak, I don't have a blowtorch or pipe bend tool either....BUT it does appeal to me as it *seems* potentially more robust.
 
Nightglow said:
See this thread, with similar problem.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=24277068#post24277068

:o:o

I just noticed you were the original OP of that thread.:o

You could always advertise the job with http://www.ratedpeople.com or http://www.mybuilder.com/ , sure there was another one,been mention on here before, but the name eludes me.
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lol yeah, cheers for the help though, appreciated, came home tonight and its playing up, boiler fires up but burner really low for over a minute before trying to ramp up........then it just stops............having read about issues with the 831 one guy said he had seen similar issues with 831s and drained n refilled system and it cleared.......so I've did that tonight and had it running for 2 hours now ok, wtf?, maybe reset sensors or something, not much detailed info on how the software operates these boilers, I do believe though circulation issues may well be implicated so I still will need to replace this 8mm microbore. Just what you want coming in from work........
 
Issues apparent again, that in mind............. there seems to be two types of speedfit pipe?, both barrier, PEX or polybutylene?, which is best/caveats?
 
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many thanks again m8, not looking forward to cutting my teeth on a live system so to speak lol, still its the summer so worst case i get a pro in after i mess up.
 
Nightglow said:
Oh! I must stop polishing my crystal ball.:eek:

I reckon nearer to £200 or so, told you it be cheaper in copper.:D

Might pay advertise the job with my earlier links & see what quotes you get back.
If I was closer I would do it for you.:(
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If you were closer I would be doing the upstairs microbore too then lol, plan is to replace this lot and see how the boiler responds, it needs done anyway as it takes the radiators an age to heat up prob due to the restricted flow capacity of the microbore. Complete PITA and tbh its a tad rich that they don't mention this caveat in their (Vaillant) literature. Ive read some stuff on tinterweb saying 'range rating' the boiler may help, essentially you configure it via the installer menu to run at a defined output, say 14kw, instead of it trying to determine the optimum rate and getting itself into a tizzy n repeatedly going into anti cycle mode then firing burner at a very low rate that doesn't even get flow temp up to the desired temp, this I think tho would impact the efficiency as it cant modulate to exact burn rate to achieve desired temps.
 
Just an update on this, re piped four rads and incredibly it all works lol, had one minor leak but fixed that np, radiators now heat much faster, will have to monitor to see if boiler anti cycling issue resolved.
 
Nightglow said:
Only one leak...:eek:

Thanks for the update, great result, it's surprising at the difference in heat up times, between 8mm & 15mm pipe.
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lol yeah and the leak was completely my fault, trying to 'bend' the pipe too much up to the radiator and avoid using an elbow..... I knew it was dodgy but sort of tried it just to see/learn if it would seal.........it didn't but we were watching the fittings as it filled and quickly sorted it, so I learned that the pipe is best going in to the fitting totally straight and not having a bend putting pressure on it. It took me a couple of days with help, toughest part is lifting floorboards etc, I`m gettin old and I`m now totally pooped :eek: I have to say though I would be confident of doing it again, scary part was cutting the main runs of 22mm...........no goin back lol
 
Another update to this, issues I was having with boiler apparently going in to anti cycling mode now looks as if it is at least partly due to the recent British Gas remote central heating I had installed, this uses a wireless thermostat to a receiver at the boiler, the signal has to go through three significant brick walls (I did suggest to installer that this may be an issue but he said it would be fine). Testing it last night it seemed like the signal was flaky, on a cursory tinterweb trawl it seems these issues are not uncommon....... for £199 British Gas will be coming back out :-). Turns out the boiler (Ive observed this) will go into antic cycle mode when it gets a stop heat signal from thermostat so when the signal gets flaky from the thermostat it does this in normal operation..........perhaps leading me to believe that boiler doing this was a result of other issues (circulation etc), HOWEVER it def did this when I had the mechanical timer only on boiler so it is still a muddled picture, I am however hugely impressed that after re piping the microbore downstairs the radiators heat up MUCH faster and am hopeful once this wireless issue is sorted that I will have arrived at a reliable upgrade for winter.
 
Nightglow said:
A few more details:eek:;)

Have same boiler, I didn't like the analogue timer on that boiler, so I had it changed for the digital one.

I know a few people who have had problem with that British Gas kit losing signal, I certainly wouldn't waste money buying one.
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Its the one they issue with the remote control package, rebadged Danfoss apparently, I *could* move the wireless receiver to ndoors (boiler is in outhouse) as there is a cable run to boiler/outhouse from old hard wired thermostat BUT I feel I want to make them come out and sort it out, its buggin me that I, a layperson had serious doubts about the robustness of the signal but was reassured by the installer that it would be ok, causing me no end of hassle.

On another tangent........ are these filters (Magnaclean etc) worth installing?, I`m confident I can do these plumbing tasks now :-)
 
yes I was looking at the Trappex one, its available for £60 too :-), AND apparently the magnet in it is stronger, the water from my system isnt dirty really as I have observed the numerous times I have drained it lol but as I`m on a mad quest to have a reliable central heating system..................
 
Nightglow said:
Get the boiler working properly,& replumb those other radiators first, then I would fit one, & add some Fernox Central Heating F1 Protector.
As it's a new boiler,radiators, I doubt there much build up of sludge yet.
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Yeah I have the fernox ready :-), I`m not planning on re-piping the upstairs as its tougher lol (and consequences if i get leaks lol), planning on seeing how it goes.

~Divine~Wind~ said:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/FERNOX-TOTAL-FILTER-TF1-22MM/dp/B0044YUZ80/ref=pd_sim_sbs_diy_2

Thats the one I had installed, came recommended by people over on MSE.
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I have done a little research on them and did look at this one, saw a few forum posts etc saying it wasnt catching as much as Magnaclean, though like I say I havent did a huge amount of research as yet.

For anyone interested heres the Trappex one for a good price :-) EDIT: plus tax making it £70 plus £7.50 del so not so great really :-( LINK
 
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Nightglow said:
Have same boiler
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When your boiler fires up does it stay on a really low flame/setting for about 5minutes before ramping up to full to get flow temp up to desired temp?, mine does this I`m assuming there is a reason for this though in winter I think I dont want to wait five minutes before getting rads warm!
 
Nightglow said:
New model of 831 came out 2012, a lot of functions can be disabled if you have the digital timer, not so sure with clockwork timer.

I change the timer on mine, had to make sure, it was a pre 2013 version, otherwise it wouldn't work.:(
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I didnt bother with digital timer as I knew I was going to get this British Gas remote thing, there are options within the installer menu (Ive guessed the code, it was 17 incase they are all the same, might help someone) to 'range rate' etc I think, sort of hard code the burner to burn at a set rate without modulating, would reduce efficiency tho i would think. I`m going to wait till I get British Gas out to sort the debacle with the wireless thermostat etc before I can definitively diagnose boiler issues. Link below is a video to bore folks :-), think this shows thermostat's odd behaviour
link
 
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