Speeding course or fine?

SKILL said:
If the insurance company asks specifically if you've attended the course when quoting, then you 'have' to say, if you don't say then you've committed fraud surely?

There's a discussion in the other thread as to whether it counts as a conviction, but if they specifically ask about the courses then that doesn't matter.

And there is a central databases for the courses now I believe, so that the different constabularies can check whether you're eligible or not, as yet the insurance companies don't have access but that's just time/money...
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As I said, doesn't effect me. However until such time as the central database can be seen by insurance companies (which I'm not convinced will ever happen) then I'd just respond in the negative.

Is it fraud? I guess that all depends on definition.
I see it a little like travelling to the US for a holiday. They ask you about every single crime even those that have "expired" in the UK under the rehabilitation of offenders act. Many of these crimes would stop you getting into the US, even though they happened 10 years ago and are "spent".
So saying "No" on the forms when asked. The US have no access to the UK database, so there is no way they can check and you get your holiday.

The idea behind the course is to attempt to make you a better driver instead of slapping you with 3 points. The whole idea of the "spent" conviction system is to allow people a "second chance" so they don't have past mistakes following them around for the rest of their lives.
I consider them both in the same light - and if either was an issue for me I'd answer the negative in both situations.
 
Lying on the insurance form to get cheaper insurance is quite clearly fraud. Lying about past convictions to enter a particular country is also fraudulent in nature.

You don't judge whether something is fraudulent based on how easy it is to get away with it nor whether you think the repercussions of telling the truth are fair or not.

Tin foil hat on > I wouldn't make any assumptions about what databases the US have access to either!

To the OP: take the course
 
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bitslice said:
Also, not really bothered about being a child killer and spawn of Satan, the village busybodies decided they were bored watching Auction TV and wanted to annoy people who pay taxes, so they whined about teenage hoodies speeding outside the village and I got caught. Having spent hours on the motorway in the dark I was too tired to spot the camera van in time, and they picked a spot where doing over 30 is pretty much expected. Meh, old people need to die faster.
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a camera van can only be placed on a stretch of road that there is a death on.
consequentially this renders the above argument void as it will have nothing to do with the local residents and more to do with the risk element assessed by local authorities and the highways agency.

human beings make mistakes from time to time, you dont need to justify it.

the fact that you have been offered a course should suggest to you that the authority handing out the penalty considered you to be a suitable candidate to educate rather than prosecute.

Book the course, go in with an open mind.

the one i went on recently has done a lot to change my perspective.
 
I vote for do the course :) day off work, granted it's a bit more money... but i'd rather say i have a clean license :)
 
SKILL said:
And there is a central databases for the courses now I believe, so that the different constabularies can check whether you're eligible or not, as yet the insurance companies don't have access but that's just time/money...
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There is indeed a central database. As I said in the other thread, my company built it and manage it.

As for time/money, there is already external connectivity for the training course providers and it is a trivial change to allow access to the insurance companies to query it.
 
rjkoneill said:
seems odd that i would be told this on a speed awareness course then :confused:
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It might be a policy in your area but there's nothing stopping them from placing them wherever they want. They are often placed on roads where speeding is an issue such as roads where residents have complained.

At a rough guess, I think Hampshire have between 5-10 vans in the county.
 
Fixed cameras can only be placed on spots where there have been a incidents of serious or fatal accidents (4 per km covered in the previous 3 years), or personal injury (8 per km in the last 3 years). Causation for incidents OTHER than excessive speed are not included. Average speeds must fall into the 85th percentile around the site and and 20% of traffic is exceeding the speed limit (excluding peak times).

There are actually 10 points the site must fulfill including the above 4, things like the camera must be visible from a certain distance and there must be a safe area for it do be loaded / unloaded if required. Mobile sites have to fulfill the same 10 points, but they are less strict.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Camera vans are actually pretty expensive to operate and rarely cover their costs, especially if people don't pay the fine and have to go to court.
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I can imagine, hence the encouragement to take the courses I suppose, so the Police actually get some revenue for themselves.

I expect the guy who hides in the trees on the avenue makes a fair old bit though :p
 
Day off work today, got a phone call to say i've been done in one of our vans, I knew I had actually was hoping the speedo over read more than it did, 35 at the end of a 30 that opens up into a dual carriage way, will see if I can do the course or not
 
Bradmax57 said:
Day off work today, got a phone call to say i've been done in one of our vans, I knew I had actually was hoping the speedo over read more than it did, 35 at the end of a 30 that opens up into a dual carriage way, will see if I can do the course or not
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They phoned you?
 
rjkoneill said:
a camera van can only be placed on a stretch of road that there is a death on.
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Community concern can also mean a camera van being placed, without signs or warning. It's allowed but they try to avoid it apparently.

Seen one near my house. No signs, just the van.
 
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