Speeding issue

[TW]Fox · 10 Jun 2015 at 20:57

SlyReaper said:
Certainly 4 hours of being told things that were true decades ago, but haven't been true since then. Things like car stopping distances, casualty rates for collisions at given speeds. Woefully pessimistic statistics based on the assumption that you're all driving cars built in the 1960s.

I don't see the point in bothering with these courses now that many insurers ask you specifically if you've ever attended one, which totally defeats the object of going.

I'm amazed insurers are allowed to ask given the intention behind them as to offer people a way out in return for education.

SlyReaper · 10 Jun 2015 at 21:16

[TW]Fox;28156543 said:
I don't see the point in bothering with these courses now that many insurers ask you specifically if you've ever attended one, which totally defeats the object of going.

I'm amazed insurers are allowed to ask given the intention behind them as to offer people a way out in return for education.

Agreed. I went on one a few years ago, before insurers started asking that. Lucky for me, it was long enough ago that I can honestly answer "no" when they ask if I've been on one in the last 5 years.

On the other hand, I don't believe insurers have access to any database of people who have gone on those courses. Now, I would have course never suggest lying, but you know...

Kenai · 10 Jun 2015 at 21:23

SlyReaper said:
Certainly 4 hours of being told things that were true decades ago, but haven't been true since then. Things like car stopping distances, casualty rates for collisions at given speeds. Woefully pessimistic statistics based on the assumption that you're all driving cars built in the 1960s.

Mine wasn't like that at all in fairness

ShiWarrior · 10 Jun 2015 at 21:32

Ace Modder said:
Hi

I was caught speeding on the M6

sacked from OcUK

joking of course

Marvin · 10 Jun 2015 at 23:29

[TW]Fox;28156543 said:
I don't see the point in bothering with these courses now that many insurers ask you specifically if you've ever attended one, which totally defeats the object of going.

I'm amazed insurers are allowed to ask given the intention behind them as to offer people a way out in return for education.

For you (and me) it might seem pointless, but it means you don't get points on your licence which could be a big deal depending upon your line of work.

Insurers are perfectly entitled to ask whatever is necessary to provide a quotation as long as they can prove that the data they are collecting is relevant to the cover provided - I would say that being caught speeding is likely to fall under this.

hyperseven · 11 Jun 2015 at 01:31

div0 said:
Sure you could have been doing 100mph and then slowed down, or even stopped. But they still have enough evidence to show that at some point you were driving at at least 55mph and therefore over the posted limit.

no, because time is the only factor that matters. If you enter gate 1 at 50, accelerate to 100 for a bit, pull over for 10 mins before gate 2 the average will be well under 50.

Ok not really feasible

I live with these everyday on the M60, usually just set cruise control to 50.

But a hell of a lot of people do not understand ow these work or just plain don't understand what the mean/average is.

teenwolf · 12 Jun 2015 at 09:06

is it still only 2 weeks they have to issue you with a speeding fine ?

div0 · 12 Jun 2015 at 09:17

hyperseven said:
no, because time is the only factor that matters. If you enter gate 1 at 50, accelerate to 100 for a bit, pull over for 10 mins before gate 2 the average will be well under 50.

Maybe I shouldn't have used a new paragraph - the two statements were meant to be linked.

If your average speed is measured at 55mph (between two points) then they know that your maximum speed at any point was at least 55mph. Sure you could have been doing 100mph and then slowed down, or even stopped. But they still have enough evidence to show that at some point you were driving at at least 55mph and therefore over the posted limit.

What I was basically saying is:

If they know that your average speed (based on time taken from A to B) was above the limit, they don't care if you did one constant speed the whole way from A to B, or if you did 100mph and then slowed down, or even stopped. If your average speed between A and B was higher than the posted limit, then they have enough evidence to show that you must have been speeding somewhere between A and B.

Zbornak · 12 Jun 2015 at 10:02

teenwolf said:
is it still only 2 weeks they have to issue you with a speeding fine ?

6 months.

div0 · 12 Jun 2015 at 10:11

teenwolf said:
is it still only 2 weeks they have to issue you with a speeding fine ?

2 weeks is usually the time they have to send the NIP.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Jun 2015 at 10:42

Zbornak said:
6 months.

div0 said:
2 weeks is usually the time they have to send the NIP.

Burnsy2023 said:
Actually, it's 14 days for the NIP and 6 months to raise a summons. They can't raise a summons after 6 months, so I'd leave it until after that expiry.

Gaygle · 12 Jun 2015 at 12:36

[TW]Fox;28156543 said:
I'm amazed insurers are allowed to ask given the intention behind them as to offer people a way out in return for education.

Police forces get to keep quite a decent proportion of speed awareness fees, unlike FPN's - this is why they started and this is why police forces are so happy to introduce them. This comes with the added bonus that it happens to look great to the public because the police can sell it as "We're interested in education, not prosecution".

Regardless of the police/governments position on speed awareness courses - this obviously means nothing to the insurers. They just want to know who has been caught speeding, whether you received a FPN or SAC so they can increase your premium....sorry...."reassess you as a higher risk driver and adjust your premiums accordingly". If you think about it, insurers must be losing out on a lot of money if they were unable to ask about SAC - as obviously a LOT of people these days get them as opposed to FPN, the latter being one which insurers traditionally did ask about and loaded your premium as a result.

Unfortunately like 99.9% of things in this world - it all comes down to the same thing. Money.

[TW]Fox · 12 Jun 2015 at 12:40

Exactly but for 99% of people the only reason they would opt for a speed awareness course is to avoid points and the associated insurance premium increases.

If I was offered one now I'd decline it because I'd have to declare it to my insurer anyway, it's the same price as the fine and the points are not so important if you dont have any to start with.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Jun 2015 at 12:52

[TW]Fox;28163230 said:
If I was offered one now I'd decline it because I'd have to declare it to my insurer anyway, it's the same price as the fine and the points are not so important if you dont have any to start with.

Is this actually the case? Does it affect premiums by the same amount?

Gaygle · 12 Jun 2015 at 14:27

[TW]Fox;28163230 said:
Exactly but for 99% of people the only reason they would opt for a speed awareness course is to avoid points and the associated insurance premium increases.

If I was offered one now I'd decline it because I'd have to declare it to my insurer anyway, it's the same price as the fine and the points are not so important if you dont have any to start with.

Even if your insurer asks about it, there are still obvious benefits to the SAC. Avoiding points is going to be a winner no matter what insurers do, as this can affect people who drive company vehicles/taxis/hire cars. For the rest of us though, it also puts you that little bit closer to the 12point limit, which although not a problem at the time, if you should get caught again in the future for speeding/a different offence, being on 6 or 9 points IS something to worry about, when you could have avoided this worry by just going on a SAC which cost only a little bit more than the speeding fine.

Burnsy2023 said:
Is this actually the case? Does it affect premiums by the same amount?

I know Admiral group ask about it and load your premiums because of it, and I think a few others do too

Burnsy2023 · 12 Jun 2015 at 14:29

Gaygle said:
I know Admiral group ask about it and load your premiums because of it, and I think a few others do too

I was under the impression it was less than a conviction though.

Kuros · 13 Jun 2015 at 16:53

For what it's worth, I didn't have to declare it to Privilege and even when I gave them the information, it didn't affect my premium.

Kenai · 13 Jun 2015 at 17:17

Burnsy2023 said:
I was under the impression it was less than a conviction though.

My premium was identical for SAC and SP30, as they originally got confused and issued it with SP30 them said no reduction for SAC when I complained it was wrong.