squats

Benny06 said:
That explains why WG Pull Ups are the boss.

My back day today, going to pay special attention to pulling with my back as opposed to arms.


Do-able. I think Most of it will go on your DL, then squat, then bench. Bench being the hardest to improve I find, or at least the slowest to progress.
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Indeed - BORs and WGs you should feel a really good lat pump - at least I do, more now I've studied the kienesology of it better.

As for 50kg, well I reckon 250kg DLs (30kg more) and 200kg squat (20kg more) should be achieveable - 150kg bench is enough for me for the time being, and that was back in the late summer and haven't really been pushing it since (go up to 120 max at hte moment).

1/4 of a tonne in one lift will be a heck of an achievement. :cool:

dun said:
Thats actual extemely quick progression robbie. It's only because you are seeing "newb gains" which are off the charts progression wise compared to the rest of your lifting career.
I love compounds but you have to be in the right mindset imo to get the best from them. I would hazard a guess that some of the guys singing compounds praises would be better doing a more isolated movement that they could get a much better 'muscle feel' from compared to just pulling or pushing without really thinking about it, especially bench.
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Compounds are key, but if followed up by an isolation of course it works out well. I'm less bothered about shape and aesthetics though, I'm more keen on pure power/size/strength so compounds suit me better. I still do isolation work outs, but they form 1/3 of my workout, 2/3rds being on compounds. :)
 
Well yes, your goals should obviously be a massive part of how you train. If you look back over your posts FF you mention your big 3 a lot and goals all focused on improving them so of course you should focus on compounds, it would be silly otherwise. 250k dead will be awesome by the way.
For some people (including me) that isn't so much of a factor. No matter what I do I could never be one of the strongest of the strong, stronger than your average man undoubtedly, but strong compared to truly strong people no. However size/ aesthetically I get much more than just the lift out of it, the feeling I get from seeing how I have come on in the last few years, the looks, the complements made it all worth while (feels great being complimented by national level bbers :D)
I think my shoulder was a bit of a wake up call that no one is invincible (despite what we would sometimes like to think:p). I want to still be doing this when I'm 30-40 who knows and busting my ass up for a number isn't part of that plan.
 
Oh absolutely, I mean we all will naturally develop aesthetically purely to shifting iron around, don't get me wrong the aesthetic value is a nice secondary goal - I can't deny there is some vanity in my training - and isolation exercises are of course important to to target specific groups, and I do do them. However yes you're goals are very much more "shape" oriented, but I'm sure some power and strength are part of your goals, no?

I'm not for off 250kg - I'm going to load up 220 and see how "easy" that feels this weekend and work from there. I really want to get back up to my big squats too. But thanks for the encouragement, means a lot - I sometimes forget there are others on here that support me and advise me too, so thanks for the support to those of you who do offer it - I know I'm a bit outspoken on a lot of this stuff, but it's just because I'm passionate about it and want to share the experience and my own experiences. :)

I think I'll be hitting AGVT again in or around March next year, then big compounds to hit some PBs - I'm aiming for 600kg by summer! Then, trim up a little bit for summer, and concentrate on some decent isolation workouts. 100kg @ 15% By July is my target with 600kg in the tank. BRING IT ON! :mad: :D :p
 
Freefaller said:
Oh absolutely, I mean we all will naturally develop aesthetically purely to shifting iron around, don't get me wrong the aesthetic value is a nice secondary goal - I can't deny there is some vanity in my training - and isolation exercises are of course important to to target specific groups, and I do do them. However yes you're goals are very much more "shape" oriented, but I'm sure some power and strength are part of your goals, no?
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Of course, every day I do large/ compound lifts for 1-2 exercises followed by isolation. But I try to mix it up rather than grind away at a plateau. For example first chest exercise I got upto 45kg on dumbbell press but it was a struggle and the next step up is 50 which are massive, so I switch to bench the next week and worked upto 100k over following weeks, again felt that was my limit for the moment so next week went onto incline etc etc. Only after I have exhausted the pushing do I go onto isolation. But in my current routine they are just as important imo.

I'm not for off 250kg - I'm going to load up 220 and see how "easy" that feels this weekend and work from there. I really want to get back up to my big squats too. But thanks for the encouragement, means a lot - I sometimes forget there are others on here that support me and advise me too, so thanks for the support to those of you who do offer it - I know I'm a bit outspoken on a lot of this stuff, but it's just because I'm passionate about it and want to share the experience and my own experiences. :)
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If you are going for 220 relatively clean then 250 isn't too far off at all mate. Perhaps lower your overall volume while you really go for it with the squats as well? Get those 2 in the bag and you can start setting your sights even higher :p
Nothing wrong with being outspoken :) I know sometimes when I post something sometimes it reads different to how I intended it. I actually prefer reading and posting here than any bb forum I have found due to the support/ advice we all give each other... /tears hahah

I think I'll be hitting AGVT again in or around March next year, then big compounds to hit some PBs - I'm aiming for 600kg by summer! Then, trim up a little bit for summer, and concentrate on some decent isolation workouts. 100kg @ 15% By July is my target with 600kg in the tank. BRING IT ON! :mad: :D :p
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Get those stupid compounds out the way then you can tone up :p
 
Big Chris said:
I weigh 91kg which is roughly 200lbs, and 1hr 5 days a week is pretty much my routine.

Is lean mass calculated in some way, or just your overall weight?

Using this formula, I need to be taking in 160g of protein, which I'm pretty sure I'm not. I'm going to work out my average daily intake later, are the guidelines on food packaging to be believed?
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Cool, a second gymrats thread ;).

Big Chris,

Lean mass is total body weight minus body fat percentage. There are a number of ways to work this out. Most have positive / negative sides to the method.

One I use in my spreadsheet is.
Body weight (Kg) -> body weight (Lbs)
BMI = (weight in Lbs X 703)/(height in inches squared)
Fat percentage = (1.2 X BMI) + (0.23 X age) - (10.8 X gender(1 for male, 0 for female)) - 5.4
Body weight * (fat percentage/100) = lean body weight

I weigh 98.3Kg (last Wednesday)
98.3 = 216.3 (Kg X 2.2 = Lbs)
BMI = (216.3 X 703)/(73 X 73) = 28.53
Fat % = (1.2 X 28.53) + (0.23 X 36) - (10.8 X 1) - 5.4 = 26.315%

Fat mass = 98.3 X 0.26315 = 25.867645 Kg (still a bit of work to do on this figure :D)
Lean body mass = 98.3 - 25.867645 = 72.432355 Kg

BMI is based around the average and not around weight lifters so does not account for 'above average' muscle mass. As such it is flawed but works ok as a rough guide.

Cheers
RB
 
Hi thanks for all the great info:) i did call the thread squats by accident but i did want a bit of info on them.
At the gym we don't have a barbell so have to use the smith machine for everything, (there is a tricep and ez curl bar) I'm deadlifting 45kg at the moment and squatting the same amount, however I can only seem to bench 37kg :( my shoulder press is crap too, doing it with 15kg dumbells at the moment.
I'm 5'11 and 11 stone at the moment.

collisster
 
I wouldn't say your shoulder press is bad. Compared to your other lifts it's quite good. Though you bench will start to pull away. There's no way I can DB shoulder press what I bench!
 
Freefaller said:
If you're losing balance it's a flexibility issue. There's no reason at all for not being able to do bodyweight squats. Practice practice practice. Heck, remember being a child and crouching down with your bum nearly touching your ankles when building sandcastles, or poking bugs with a stick or something - everyone should be able to get from that position to a standing position with a straight back and without losing balance.

Unless you actually have an injury or a diagnosed/obvious physiological condition impeding your ability to squat without toppling over you have to question why this is the case.

However I agree, deads / squats / bench are my prefered order too. 600kg next year, I'm determined - I said I was going to hit it this year but didn't do much strength training this year - I only need to find 50kg...
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That makes perfect sense,

I've got an injured left knee (confirmed left ACL, fubared :( ), which actually prevents me from bending it the entire way(i can bend it enough to go over parrallel squats, but not quite full ATG squats.

The tissue surrounding the bone is actually swollen, which is the cause for this.
 
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Benny06 said:
I wouldn't say your shoulder press is bad. Compared to your other lifts it's quite good. Though you bench will start to pull away. There's no way I can DB shoulder press what I bench!
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This!

For example;

BP : 42kg dumbells for reps w/ 38/40kg on incline
SP : 34kg dumbells for reps

If lucky though, i possibly a 1RM for 42kg, if it was a good day!
 
how long should i do the weights I'm at before upping them? a week or two or take it much slower? I could probably deadlift and squat a bit more but don't want to wreck my back because it would be ages getting right again.

collisster
 
collisster said:
how long should i do the weights I'm at before upping them? a week or two or take it much slower? I could probably deadlift and squat a bit more but don't want to wreck my back because it would be ages getting right again.

collisster
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In my experience, the sets will become easier and easier (not significantly, but you'lll notice it in the form of an extra rep or so).

One method i use, it to begin my first set with the next size up for as many reps as i can, and then go back to one weight down, and resume the reps you'd reguarly do.

So(with example weights);

Week 1

20kg / 12
20kg / 10
20kg / 8

Week 2

22kg / As many as you can do
20kg /10
20kg /8

Week 3

22kg / As many as you can do
22kg / As many as you can do
20kg /8

Week 4

22kg / 12
22kg / 10
22kg / 8

My not be practical, but it worked for me :)
 
In terms of progression with weight. You shouldn't be able to complete/it should be a complete battle to complete your final set. When you eventually can, up the weight and repeat.
 
collisster said:
cheers, I'm doing 5x5 at the moment so 25 reps in all, should I switch to this arrangement of sets and reps?

collisster
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I find that I get more back muscle pain when doing deadlifts at 3 x 8 than 5 x 5, so I switched from 3 x 8 to 5 x 5 for deadlifts only. I suppose my poor core strength must have been affecting reps 6-8 form-wise, meaning that my back was possibly rounding a bit more (though it looked fine in the mirror).

Maybe I should drop the weight and go back to 3 x 8 :confused:.
 
I think what happens is when your core fatigues but your trunk hasn't even though your keeping your back straight it rounds due to your core failing slightly. If you think of your core as the front and trunk as the back of the core.

I know what you mean though.
 
Rippetoes and, IIRC, Stronglifts both suggest upping the weight every session until you fail.

i.e.

5X5 @ 10Kg with an exercise

easy to complete all sets = +10Kg next time
Hard to complete all sets = +5Kg next time
Fail to complete all sets = + 0Kg next time

3XFail = deload (-10%) and cycle above.

Tommy is doing a interesting pryamid / dropset type of 'thing' :D.

Pyramiding usually increases the weight by set whilst dropping the number of reps up to a peak and then down again. Dropsets usually drop the weight and increase the reps as the number of sets increases. Pyramid sets work to warm up with light to medium weights before hitting the heavy, work set then doing a drop set back down again to fatigue the muscles. Dropsets are aimed more at producing total fatigue in the muscles.

i.e.
Pyramid set
10Kg X 20
20Kg X 15
30Kg X 10 (work set)
20Kg X 15
10Kg X 20

Dropset
50Kg X until fail
40Kg X until fail
30Kg X until fail
20Kg X until fail
10Kg X until fail

Both are slightly more advanced methods than would be used in the beginning.

Better routines can be suggested depending on your goals. As per the first post they are just

I want bigger lats
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and
for biggers abs what are good exercies
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You after strength, endurance or size ? They are of course not mutually exclusive but which is your higher priority.

Also you mention only having access to a Smith machine but later you also mention dumbbells.

Smith machines are great for giving confidence and adding safety when starting out but they restrict the range of motion so you do not get to exercise the stabilizers used when you would use a barbell or dumbbell. Trying to squat, dead or bench your Smith weights with barbells could have very unfortunate results unless you are seriously under your max weight on the Smith.

Dumbbells can be used for all of the big three compounds even if it is not as easy as using a barbell, if you have heavy enough dumbbells available.

Take a look at dumbbell squats, dumbbell press and dumbbell deadlifts in google etc for ideas.

The stabalizers will help prevent injury and add balance if they are trained. Exercising without using them will only cause more difficulties if you ever move off the Smith machine.

The same applies for the fixed range of motion or lever machines in the gym.

RB
 
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For abs I'm doing 3 sets of 10 hanging knee raises off my powerbar every other day. Can't quite manage decent form on a hanging leg raise yet!!
 
Benny06 said:
Would you say drawing your shoulder blades together with the weight before starting the movement with your arms might explain it slightly better?
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It's SO good to see people promoting proper form for back work. So often subscapularis and supraspinatus aren't focused on. I see a lot of poor shoulder stability and balance. Classic point in case is the 'carpet carrier' look :p

Ant :cool:
 
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