ST220 or alternatives + Questions : )

Peter450 · 31 Dec 2013 at 18:34

What are the running costs like on these compared to a standard 2 litre mondeo, clearly fuel is going to be more, but what about other stuff like servicing and insurance ?

As far as tax goes what year does the higher tax band kick in ?

Any other helpful tips re these cars ?? i seen them from between 3 and 4.5k for very tidy looking ones and am tempted i need something more practical than my current car but i dont want to go too sensible and the thought of a 3 litre v6 is tempting

Any alternatives to consider, i like the look of the 159, and that also has a v6... but 4 wheel drive and just a image of great complexity and expense is putting me off, i dont mind the fuel costs so much, or the tax but i want something reliable and something that is not going to have very expensive bits go wrong that then cost XXX to fix, hence why i think the ST220 ticks a lot of boxes

Vita · 31 Dec 2013 at 18:40

Peter450 said:
What are the running costs like on these compared to a standard 2 litre mondeo, clearly fuel is going to be more, but what about other stuff like servicing and insurance ?

As far as tax goes what year does the higher tax band kick in ?

Any other helpful tips re these cars ?? i seen them from between 3 and 4.5k for very tidy looking ones and am tempted i need something more practical than my current car but i dont want to go too sensible and the thought of a 3 litre v6 is tempting

Any alternatives to consider, i like the look of the 159, and that also has a v6... but 4 wheel drive and just a image of great complexity and expense is putting me off, i dont mind the fuel costs so much, or the tax but i want something reliable and something that is not going to have very expensive bits go wrong that then cost XXX to fix, hence why i think the ST220 ticks a lot of boxes

Can't shed much on the ST220, but I own the tractor version which is the ST TDCI. It's basically a Mondeo 2.2 diesel with 155ps and has an addition of the ST body kit and wheels.

I can tell you about the interior, it's very well specced with heated seats, front/rear heated windscreen (I think side mirrors are also heated), and electric seats. Rear seats fold (I have the rare saloon version), and to be honest the saloon does look a lot more prettier then the hatch. The interior is a nice place to be, get one with the recaro leathers, they're great and supportive when you don't have them in full recline like I do. It's a well made car, on the motorway it's a breeze to drive.

Parts are relatively cheap, and can be had in the dozens (it's a mondeo so not the rarest of cars). Great cars, good chassis. Back end can be frisky as it is on mine, not sure what that is down to. Hatchback has a big boot, and the estate is well, an estate.

Fuel will be an issue so if you're strapped for cash in the sense, it's not a sensible purchase. I reckon £2.5k-£3k will net you a decent example, anything over isn't worth it in my opinion.

Imy · 31 Dec 2013 at 18:44

Fuel a lot more, tyres probably +£40/corner and quicker wear, servicing just a bit more, insurance very dependant on individual circumstances (mine is below £380 for full + hire car).

Tax bands: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

Alternatives people often consider are Mazda6 MPS and Skoda Octavia VRS.

Edit: I don't personally think the ST TDCI is comparable.

R220 · 31 Dec 2013 at 18:50

Peter450 said:
What are the running costs like on these compared to a standard 2 litre mondeo, clearly fuel is going to be more, but what about other stuff like servicing and insurance ?

Insurance is quite cheap on these, for me it was a lot less than my previous car (Civic Type-R), as for servicing its still a mondeo just has larger capacity so youll often need to pay a bit extra for oil, but shouldn't be loads more, the only service item that generally does cost a lot more is spark plugs as its an hour labour, unless you do it yourself. Then obviously tyres are a bit more as you have 18" rims to wrap. Also, no cam belt on these, they are chain driven.

As far as tax goes what year does the higher tax band kick in ?

March 2006 onwards

Any other helpful tips re these cars ?? i seen them from between 3 and 4.5k for very tidy looking ones and am tempted i need something more practical than my current car but i dont want to go too sensible and the thought of a 3 litre v6 is tempting

There was a facelift early 2003 where the gearbox was changed from 5 speed to 6 speed, its definitely worth going for the 6 speed as its much stronger, they also made improvements to the interior/dash, then there was a further facelift 2005 where they added chrome bits, removed the rear boot open button(security issue?..), and one last facelift in 2006 where I think the side skirts were curved a bit more and they added a ST220 logo to front, not sure what else they changed but the last 2 lifts were cosmetic only as far as im aware

Any alternatives to consider, i like the look of the 159, and that also has a v6... but 4 wheel drive and just a image of great complexity and expense is putting me off, i dont mind the fuel costs so much, or the tax but i want something reliable and something that is not going to have very expensive bits go wrong that then cost XXX to fix, hence why i think the ST220 ticks a lot of boxes

Considering you can pick up a decent ST220 now for less than 4k there is not a huge amount of cars in its class that offer the same level of comfort, performance and handling it offers, although usually people recommend Mazda 6 MPS, but cant really comment on that car

Vita · 31 Dec 2013 at 18:52

Imy said:
Edit: I don't personally think the ST TDCI is comparable.

That's why I didn't throw in the performance. Interior bits are pretty much identical.

MPS 6 2.3T is a very thirsty engine. Goes really well though.

Imy · 31 Dec 2013 at 18:59

Full leather recaros were an optional extra on ST TDCIs but came as standard on the ST220.

But yeah I was referring mainly to performance and ownership.

Peter450 · 31 Dec 2013 at 19:11

I had not thought about a MPS Mazda, they are 4 wheel drive right ?? around 250 hp hmm

Ok so i done a quick tax check (thanks for link) it's gonna be around 280, so another 50 from what i'm paying now no biggie

Fuel i dont do a lot of miles so can handle spending a bit more on petrol

I seen the TDCI Mondeos and they look good, similar to the ST220, but for my miles sub 6k a year the extra complexity of an oil burner makes no sense

I guess the thing drawing me to the ST220 is the v6 engine under the hood, same with the 159, the MPS looks good but it's either 4 or 5 cylinders and if i'm going to put up with high fuel costs i'd rather get a v6 soundtrack to go with it

The Jag X type is another option, but i'm put off by the reliability issues, and i get the sense that i'm going to be paying jag prices for what is essentially a 4 wheel drive ST220 if i get the 3 litre sport version, and although 4 wheel drive is nice, i'm not sure if it's going to be be needed in a car with under 250 hp

rodenal · 31 Dec 2013 at 19:21

X types are truly rubbish cars, don't bother with them.

It is worth checking the Mazda out. Though you'd need to spend more for a decent one. They are quite an accomplished car though. Don't sound as good as the Mondeo as you know

Peter450 · 31 Dec 2013 at 19:41

Yes thats whats putting me off the MPS, it looks good, and it's a bit faster, but more money, and no v6.... which is what i'm hankering for

No ones mentioned the Alfa 159 3.2 yet, whats the opinions on these, they look absolutely fantastic i must admit, the prettiest saloon car i have seen in a long long time, the interiors also look great

What i'm not so sure about is if there worth the extra 2 or 3 k over a nice ST 220 and if there going to throw up unexpected big bills

With the mondeo everything looks like it's going to be straightforward as it were, the v6 thirst aside looks a solid unit and the rest of the car is mondeo so i feel running costs petrol aside should not throw up to many surprises, the alfa on the other hand is a bit of an unknown quantity to me, anyone got any experience of these ???

Imy · 31 Dec 2013 at 19:55

If you're interested in the ST220 because of the V6 sound you may be a little disappointed. It's so quiet, you can barely hear it inside the cabin. Quite a few owners (myself included) add aftermarket exhausts to make the experience a bit louder/sportier but it's still pretty tame.

[TW]Fox · 31 Dec 2013 at 20:00

rodenal said:
X types are truly rubbish cars, don't bother with them.

Absolute rubbish IMHO.

SoundsGood · 31 Dec 2013 at 20:01

What about an Audi A4 2.0T Special Edition

almoststew1990 · 31 Dec 2013 at 20:11

What about the 3.2 Alfa 159? These seem a fair bit more expensive and are a few years newer but how does it compare to an ST220 in terms of performance, fuel economy, tyres standard equipment?

rodenal · 31 Dec 2013 at 20:58

[TW]Fox;25576589 said:
Absolute rubbish IMHO.

Not in mine. Seen 3 or 4 through the first 3 years of their life - dreadful reliability despite its relatively reliable roots, aged terribly inside, do not drive particularly well, just a car that got it all wrong.

People on here seem to get a hard on for anything Jaguar. Every single Jag I've experienced from mid 90's xj's up until the xf... including an xk8 and xk have been terribly unreliable and up until recently the interiors have been equally as bad ( looking, in terms of how they age). Jaguar themselves have always been excellent but that doesn't excuse the quality of the cars from that general period.

Fireblade2K4 · 31 Dec 2013 at 23:11

I've currently got an ST200, I've had it for 8 years and its been a brilliant car however it is due for a change, I will be replacing it with an ST220 in January/February and have to agree with everything R220 has said above about them.

Stu

[TW]Fox · 31 Dec 2013 at 23:21

rodenal said:
Not in mine. Seen 3 or 4 through the first 3 years of their life - dreadful reliability despite its relatively reliable roots, aged terribly inside, do not drive particularly well, just a car that got it all wrong.

It is effectively a Mondeo with a nicer interior and a posh body. How can it be so different, with the exception of troublesome AWD in the early part of their lives?

rodenal · 31 Dec 2013 at 23:31

No idea, but I have actually never seen a car have so many faults across a few examples. Whatever they changed, it was done badly. Not even the same problem across different cars, just constant gremlin after gremlin. Engine ectrical issues, media/ stereo issues, early failure of suspension components, inexplicable brake wear etc etc. Not usually causing a break down but significant enough to be more than an annoyance and simply not good enough. These were the worst cars in a fleet of at a guess 60 made up of 9-3's, x types, mondeos, e46 and 60, vectras etc

As I said Jag themselves were superb, the cars were shocking, something I've seen repeated across a few different models from the same era. Now they're older I wouldn't touch one - unless they massively improved them throughout the models life. They're nothing special anyway tbh

Edit I seem to remember one constantly leaking into the light clusters too, they were just crap

Howard · 1 Jan 2014 at 09:36

Imy said:
If you're interested in the ST220 because of the V6 sound you may be a little disappointed. It's so quiet, you can barely hear it inside the cabin. Quite a few owners (myself included) add aftermarket exhausts to make the experience a bit louder/sportier but it's still pretty tame.

It isn't THAT bad, it has a lovely note as standard and it isn't silent by any means but a new exhaust does make it sound much more "performance"!

The X Type is a fine car, it's just quite a bit of a different character to the other cars being discussed in here.

Philz0r · 1 Jan 2014 at 10:12

Only had mine a week and a half and i love it, (st220)

Peter450 · 1 Jan 2014 at 11:29

Imy said:
If you're interested in the ST220 because of the V6 sound you may be a little disappointed. It's so quiet, you can barely hear it inside the cabin. Quite a few owners (myself included) add aftermarket exhausts to make the experience a bit louder/sportier but it's still pretty tame.

While I don't expect it to sound like a v8 I will be disappointed if it sounds similar to a 2 litre one

SoundsGood said:
What about an Audi A4 2.0T Special Edition

I like audis but I'd like a multi-cylinder power plant and as good and tuneable as that engine is it's 2 cylinders short of what I'm after

almoststew1990 said:
What about the 3.2 Alfa 159? These seem a fair bit more expensive and are a few years newer but how does it compare to an ST220 in terms of performance, fuel economy, tyres standard equipment?

I really like the look of the 159, performance looks to be about the same and it's a real looker, my only worry with one of these is it's a bit of an unknown quantity

Ive also thought about a 3 series as the 3 litre inline 6 looks a great engine, but I'm not really sure if I can get a good one without spending over 5k were as that would be more than enough for a nice 159 3.2 or ST220