Steamroller!!

[drunkenmaster]

It will get better each time and should improve over time because of the direction the industry/software has gone. I said for what must be 18 months before Bulldozer launched, AMD nor Intel design a chip for one year, and will radically rework said chip each year to go a different direction. Bulldozer was the base for an architecture that is aimed at the next 5-10 years. That means more cores, and complete fundamental changes. Going backwards in running really old school code is a good thing in general, but might not show up instantly. Ability to run super pi is useless, if someone finally makes super pi version 2,0 with x86 code, the ability to run old obsolete code becomes worthless and Bulldozer and future versions aren't wasting die space on the ability to do something pointless.

Currently Piledriver while a nice bump over Bulldozer in terms of fixes and streamlining smaller things, has gained as much, or more from software moving to more multicore using, to better optimisation and that should continue. This was always an architecture designed for where software will be in 2-10 years, not current needs. its a trade off, it can cost billions to create a new architecture, it will double your costs if you push a new architecture now for the present and need an entirely new one in 3 years, also if they made one for today, all the time and effort spent making small fixes for a year later, and massive fixes for 2 years later, would be a waste as the chip has no future.

One thing AMD has had trouble with is, the inability(read that as lack of money) to jump into a new direction quickly. Getting in on all 3 consoles gives AMD some good ability to get ahead of the curve, have a huge and important market(gaming) optimised for them but also speak with game dev's, build relationships, design in the future for performance and things they want. It also lets them tell game dev's about their future intentions and help game dev's design for their future chips to get the best out of them. It helps them shape and be shaped by where the market is going.

The companies doing the best in the silicon market are those who can react quickest or predict whats needed best.

 

[Freddie1980]

Drunk do you still own shares in AMD?

 

[humbug]

It will get better each time and should improve over time because of the direction the industry/software has gone. I said for what must be 18 months before Bulldozer launched, AMD nor Intel design a chip for one year, and will radically rework said chip each year to go a different direction. Bulldozer was the base for an architecture that is aimed at the next 5-10 years. That means more cores, and complete fundamental changes. Going backwards in running really old school code is a good thing in general, but might not show up instantly. Ability to run super pi is useless, if someone finally makes super pi version 2,0 with x86 code, the ability to run old obsolete code becomes worthless and Bulldozer and future versions aren't wasting die space on the ability to do something pointless.

Currently Piledriver while a nice bump over Bulldozer in terms of fixes and streamlining smaller things, has gained as much, or more from software moving to more multicore using, to better optimisation and that should continue. This was always an architecture designed for where software will be in 2-10 years, not current needs. its a trade off, it can cost billions to create a new architecture, it will double your costs if you push a new architecture now for the present and need an entirely new one in 3 years, also if they made one for today, all the time and effort spent making small fixes for a year later, and massive fixes for 2 years later, would be a waste as the chip has no future.

One thing AMD has had trouble with is, the inability(read that as lack of money) to jump into a new direction quickly. Getting in on all 3 consoles gives AMD some good ability to get ahead of the curve, have a huge and important market(gaming) optimised for them but also speak with game dev's, build relationships, design in the future for performance and things they want. It also lets them tell game dev's about their future intentions and help game dev's design for their future chips to get the best out of them. It helps them shape and be shaped by where the market is going.

The companies doing the best in the silicon market are those who can react quickest or predict whats needed best.

Ability to run super pi is useless, if someone finally makes super pi version 2,0 with x86 code

Y-Cruncher maybe?

 

[Cooper]

Firstly most people with a brain said Bulldozer will offer improvements, and potentially be meh elsewhere. Braindead people went "new equals instantly better always therefore bulldozer will wipe the floor with everything", it didn't and those same people went "its crap because it doesn't win super pi, zomg, lame".

It gained what, beyond 10% simply from a windows scheduler update, it gains more than that from proper optimisation. Software completely unoptimised for ANY chip will run like absolute turd vs software completely or even a little bit optimised for it.

Bulldozer is still no where near as bad as people say, there were still 4-5 area's it DID beat sandybridge, and other area's it lost(marginally) to a hex core Phenom 2, boo hoo.

I said as did many others, first chip in a new architecture will be the worst chip you'll see for 5-10 years depending on how long said architecture lasts. It is the least optimised chip in terms of layout, design AND support from software, OS. The second gen both had, an updated scheduler on OS's before its release, more software aware of optimisations for it(but still the vast vast majority run on Intel compilers that do very little to help run on AMD chips at all well), and fixed literally dozens of smaller problems, but it was also WITHIN A YEAR of the previous chip and MAJOR fixes were NEVER going to be in a chip that close. Here's a hint, GPU's take 7-8 months to tape out, so for instance if the 5870 came out, and there needed to be a massive beast of a change in the 6970 it would need to be tested post 5870 release essentially, found, fixed, tested, redesigned in multiple stages, improved, then be ready to go in the final product within 3 months to be ready to tape out for a year later.

CPU's take 18months + to tape out usually, you do not generally get major "fixes" from one iteration to another, think tick tock for Intel. Small changes, bug fixes, minor improvements after a year, after two years, big changes.

This is no different, anyone with any sense who doesn't go "new therefore instantly perfect" knew bulldozer would be a step forward in some area's, compete bettere with Sandy in some area's, and be worse in some area's, and certainly have a problem or two that needs fixing. It was also plain as day that some of these would(and did) get fixed in PIledriver and bigger fixes would be coming in Steamroller.

These things were OBVIOUS to a sensible person 3-4 years ago, because every COMPLETELY NEW architecture has the SAME issue, its always the worst and always has the most to be gained essentially on a long line of upgrades to the architecture. Its also not disimilar to the design process for almost everything made in the world.

Ipad, ipad 2 ipad 3, (okay I don't follow apple so the order or numbers might be off but) simple basic flawed version, followed by version with a number of fixes and small easy improvements, then a version with a completely new chip, vastly more power, loads of the kinks worked out, smoother this and that, streamlined something else, etc, etc.

You don't go into a workshop, design a chip, 3 months later its finish, 3 months after that ready for sale and a year later you can have a completely reworked chip ready, Intel can't do this with billions upon billions at their disposal, ARM chip makers STILL haven't all got A15's out, no a15 quad cores, and theoretically they could have been made the second 28nm was up and running which was well over a year ago. Chip design, even when half the companies use a basically already existing design with minor tweaks, take a ruddy long time.

Only people who were disappointed with Bulldozer were those who can't read benchmarks(it beat Sandy in places the X6 couldn't touch it), and those who for no apparent reason expected the second coming of jesus.

It was a tiny bit slower than I expected on launch, but with scheduler updates, and when software was recompiled for it, you could see how fast it could be, much closer to sandy than Phenom in the vast majority of cases, as it should have been.

lol...

 

[drunkenmaster]

Drunk do you still own shares in AMD?

I've sold and rebought them loads of times, last time around I didn't sell them early enough and lost a little compared to what I made but still got something stupid like about 8 times what I put in, currently wondering if I should be buying in again while its low.

 

[humbug]

I've sold and rebought them loads of times, last time around I didn't sell them early enough and lost a little compared to what I made but still got something stupid like about 8 times what I put in, currently wondering if I should be buying in again while its low.

Its gone up from $1.81 to $2.35 in the past week.

but i wouldn't buy in yet, there are a lot of catalysts coming next year which 'might' get shares rocketing.

 

[~Dockie]

Y-Cruncher maybe?

Just thought i would throw this out there, for comparison.

Although i personally don't think BD is as bad as people make out, it could Definately have been better.
I expect the 6870's will run out of steam before the CPU does.

 

[humbug]

Thats a £100 chip, its not bad. and your not going to see to many Thuban's running at 4.15Ghz, especially on a £30 air cooler.

I would be interested to see Vishera compares with that.