Steve Jobs - Thoughts on Flash

bigredshark said:
Looks a lot like the approach being adopted by Microsoft for windows phone 7 incidentally...
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And why a lot of people dont much like the idea of Win Phone 7, although it looks stunning. MS have taken the idea from Apple that the best way of creating a much "better" user experience is to control what goes on the device and what it runs on, which is good for some but a pain in the **** for others who like to actually do stuff "out the box" with their phone and it's what I'd suggest is not what smart phones are all about.
 
Halfmad said:
This is nothing about performance, this is about Apple having complete control over "their" device.
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If "having complete control" means not wanting sub-standard apps on their platform then yeah you're probably right. Now explain why this approach is bad.

At least read the letter before forming an opinion.

We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers.

This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms.
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cotton_flex said:
What a load of tosh. Its all about control nothing else.
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Even this?

JOBZ said:
In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010. We think it will eventually ship, but we’re glad we didn’t hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?
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That's all very well but that comes from a man with a possible vested interest.

It reminds me strongly of Blairs 45 minute claim... And we all know how much ********* that was....

EDIT: I'm not saying there aren't/won't be issues, just that you can't necessarily trust a source without any actual physical data on the subject.
 
The App Store is closed, by design.

Having it become a free for all would be bad. It wouldn't take long for scamming apps to appear and lawsuits to pop up.

The problem with the app store is the lack of submission criteria published.

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway..

I can totally understand them pulling the flash translation apps / tools.

You can't honestly think that apps developed on Flash then converted to run on the iPhone are more efficient than those built from the ground up?

Once you start developing and relying on translation you become sloppy and (like Jobs said) rely on the developers of the translations tools to provide you with access to the latest APIs. In effect, you're half a step behind.
 
Amp34 said:
And why a lot of people dont much like the idea of Win Phone 7, although it looks stunning. MS have taken the idea from Apple that the best way of creating a much "better" user experience is to control what goes on the device and what it runs on, which is good for some but a pain in the **** for others who like to actually do stuff "out the box" with their phone and it's what I'd suggest is not what smart phones are all about.
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That's a more fundamental disagreement though, it's not out of the box stuff, it's in depth customisation. If you want it to work exactly the way you choose and be able to set anything you choose then yes you'll object, but if you accept it works in a given way and accept that when buying it the quality of results is excellent and for most that's more important. It is a phone rather than a computer to most people at the end of the day, a smart phone means to most a phone with added functionality, endlessly customisable options isn't part of the mainstream. Maybe you can do both if you have heaps of time and money to invest but Apple seem to disagree.
 
Smartphones originated from a different source to the average phone though. Smartphones are essentially an evolution of personal organisers and PDAs, designed as business tools for organisation and work with the eventual inclusion of the phone part. I'd suggest that is why WinMo doesn't really compete with the other newer smart phone OS's, because it was designed as a business tool for the companies and providers to create and build bespoke software on top for specific companies, for example a stylus wasn't seen as a problem, in fact it was very useful. Apple then came along and brought out the iPhone for consumer, bringing the "smart" phone to the mainstream consumer by removing a lot of the features that were the reason people used the smart phone OS in the first place, essentially "dumbing" it down for the consumer that mostly didn't need the extra bits. I still think that the iPhone isn't a proper smartphone and that the new Windows phone 7 will not be either. It's also why winmo 6.x will last a long time, unless MS create a direct replacement as there is a huge market that still needs that sort of software.
 
Would it really be so difficult for the Win7 phone to ship a fully closed system (ala iPhone) with an option in settings to just open it up for those of us who like to tinker? I don't see why it has to be so black and white?

It's all about options at the end of the day. Apple just seem intent on giving us fewer options than almost everyone else.
 
Adrianr said:
Would it really be so difficult for the Win7 phone to ship a fully closed system (ala iPhone) with an option in settings to just open it up for those of us who like to tinker? I don't see why it has to be so black and white?
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IMO it would be very difficult for W7 phone to be fully closed. The EU would salivate at the prospect of making another rake load of cash for starters. MS just can't get away with closing the phone completely or including too many features as anti-competition lawsuits will be flying everywhere.
 
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Thing is, 95% of people don't *want* to do what the other 5% want to do, and it's the 95% that is the part that matters.

Yes, my 3GS has some annoying limitations, some of which will be removed by iPhone OS 4 but it's still by far the best phone i've ever used or come across.

Unfortunately this is a forum of people who like to tinker, who like to do what they want when they want. But that isn't what 95% of the world wants which is a cool looking, quick running phone, which is what apple has provided.

Want open? Buy an android handset. But I won't be following you as apple's "closedness" has created a synced environment I do not need to worry about, which is actually what I want.
 
I must admit I do admire Apple for sticking to their guns. Their reputation is built on stability, security, UI. In closing phones, limiting OS hardware, closing appstore, API's etc they do a good job of keeping everything in check.

I think more and more software companies are trying to follow suite and not allow just anything to be installed on a system creating issues.
 
I'm really 50/50 about this.

Yes, SJ clearly has a vested interest as he's pushing HTML5.

But at the same time, I think Flash is really slow and clunky, and I can see why SJ doesn't want the App Store plastered with stuff based on it.
 
Adrianr said:
Would it really be so difficult for the Win7 phone to ship a fully closed system (ala iPhone) with an option in settings to just open it up for those of us who like to tinker? I don't see why it has to be so black and white?

It's all about options at the end of the day. Apple just seem intent on giving us fewer options than almost everyone else.
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Problem with that is so many people (and possibly manufacturers) will "set it to open" and will have the occasional issue with it, thus ruining the experience to the press.

It's the best and worst thing Apple have done and it's why MS are "following" them after all the apparent issues with WM6.x, which is nowhere near as bad as some people like to think, as long as it is run on a decent phone without being ripped apart badly...
 
JonRohan said:
IMO it would be very difficult for W7 phone to be fully closed. The EU would salivate at the prospect of making another rake load of cash for starters. MS just can't get away with closing the phone completely or including too many features as anti-competition lawsuits will be flying everywhere.
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Concorde Rules said:
Thing is, 95% of people don't *want* to do what the other 5% want to do, and it's the 95% that is the part that matters.

Yes, my 3GS has some annoying limitations, some of which will be removed by iPhone OS 4 but it's still by far the best phone i've ever used or come across.

Unfortunately this is a forum of people who like to tinker, who like to do what they want when they want. But that isn't what 95% of the world wants which is a cool looking, quick running phone, which is what apple has provided.

Want open? Buy an android handset. But I won't be following you as apple's "closedness" has created a synced environment I do not need to worry about, which is actually what I want.
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You both missed the part where I said 'with an option' :p I love my iPhone to bits, but I would still love the option to open it up should I choose to (It certainly isn't 'quick running' by ANY stretch of the imagination though!)
 
Adrianr said:
You both missed the part where I said 'with an option' :p I love my iPhone to bits, but I would still love the option to open it up should I choose to (It certainly isn't 'quick running' by ANY stretch of the imagination though!)
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True i'd like that too, but again, Apple arn't going to cater to the 5% that want to open their phones up sadly.

Just the way its going to work.
 
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