Struggling to hire/retain staff

[Rroff]

These were jobs filled by workers from the EU, but Brexit and the pandemic mean a lot will have returned home. Brits aren't prepared to do those jobs for those wages.

We've never had a problem filling our warehouse positions at work from Brits until 2021 where it seems to have taken a massive slump with few prepared to do the job.

We have a massive problem at the moment as since 2021 for some reason most applicants are just woefully poor quality and the small number of good ones increasingly seem to want specific conditions, etc. which don't fit with the job and/or they'll agree with the requirements but then once offered the job turn around and say they can't work specific days or patterns that they said wasn't a problem at the interview and so on. It makes quite a difference from a few years ago where we'd have like 400 applicants for one position and able to cherry pick.

I'm getting a bit fed up to be honest of the number of people who can't at the very least do the basic job to a reasonable standard - I can understand not being motivated to do any extra, etc. but the number of people who just don't care, even if it makes extra work for other people or causes health and safety situations, etc. and are lazy as **** just isn't acceptable.

 

[malachi]

I'm getting a bit fed up to be honest of the number of people who can't at the very least do the basic job to a reasonable standard - I can understand not being motivated to do any extra, etc. but the number of people who just don't care, even if it makes extra work for other people or causes health and safety situations, etc. and are lazy as **** just isn't acceptable.

This is the result of all the good workers checking out because they have better conditions elsewhere. So you are left with the people who don't care.

 

[Rroff]

This is the result of all the good workers checking out because they have better conditions elsewhere. So you are left with the people who don't care.

I don't think it is that in this case.

 

[m4rmite]

I put up with a useless employer for 16 years, caught covid got hispitalied and re-evaluated my life. Handed my notice in upon my return.
Want about the money as i took a pay cut in my current job, just couldn't stand work with numpties who directly affected my job.

My replacement can't do half of what i did, why? Because like me he hasn't received any support or help in his role.

A very backwards thinking company who advertise in LinkedIn as a forward thinking company
My new place isn't without its faults however the team i work with are cracking, they also actually care about their jobs.

Makes a massive difference to moral and wellbeing.

My wife's place in a care environment can't retain staff for love nor money.

 

[Housey]

I'm getting a bit fed up to be honest of the number of people who can't at the very least do the basic job to a reasonable standard - I can understand not being motivated to do any extra, etc. but the number of people who just don't care, even if it makes extra work for other people or causes health and safety situations, etc. and are lazy as **** just isn't acceptable.

We have a section of our nation who don't think they need to put effort in because they aren't paid enough or because they think no one will find out and they can 'play' the system as they smugly smile at their own cleverness. No fool on them, they know best and why bother if they don't have to.

They rarely take any personal responsibility for their own inability to secure something better, they just have the 'entitlement' problem. These people would be the same if they were paid twice as much, it's part of their makeup. You can try and attach it to money, but fact is they are bone idle or have no personal standards and don't care. The why should they when they are paid peanuts just evidences the mindset and problem.

Prove yourself, get good, get promoted or move on. Good employees will in most places get rewarded. Saying "it won't matter" is the last defence on the can't be arsed.

 

[HangTime]

My experience around reward is very mixed. I think it depends a lot on the culture of the org and indeed the people in positions of authority that can influence your progression. The key in my opinion is identifying whether it's the type of org you can thrive in and if not, then as said you move on.

20 years ago, I had a rubbish job but I was fresh out of uni and didn't know any better. Most people progress rapidly in first 5 years after graduation whereas I was very stagnant (and naive, and perhaps even risk-averse). It was the sort of job that didn't teach many transferrable skills, was relatively complex and very few people knew what it actually entailed until they attempted to outsource it. So a combination of general lack of gumption/confidence on my part combined with it being hard to translate my experiences to better roles meant I was stuck there for a while. Did that job for 4 years before having networked sufficiently with another team to land a better paid role there. Having suddenly got in a role with transferrable skills that were easier to articulate and associate with jobs in other organisations, I was then able to move to a better role in another company within 9 months and then kick on from there. I hadn't magically got better or was putting in more effort, looking back I still feel it was a bit 'bad luck' that I took a dead-end job and lacked the experience to recognise this (this would sound like an excuse if I was still in that job, but having experienced other companies/jobs, I genuinely believe that).

I guess where I'm going with this is there's an element of luck in terms of whether naive/inexperienced people end up stuck in a rut that's harder to get out. Climbing out of that rut to get into a job paying £15k+ was harder than it is to get a job paying 6 figures today.

 

[flibbage0]

We found there were a significant number of people, who after covid - just decided to stop working, completely.

This is quite shocking, I know in my field (healthcare) people are leaving to work in GP surgeries or switch into data analysis/science.

So far I've done a 4 year degree and then 1 year of intensive training. Combined with several years of experience, so I'm no longer considered a junior.

Then to stand out from the crowd I've done almost 3 years of postgraduate studies and the result is I'm on £40-45k which is not good enough in my opinion. (I'm sorry if I sound ungrateful). Meanwhile I've spoken to people that have gone from 30k to 75k within 3-5 years of starting a new career in data or a field within I.T that is high in demand.

To add insult to injury some of these jobs are either remote working or hybrid working, during the pandemic pharmacists (along with other healthcare workers) were at the frontline. No days off (I couldn't even take annual leave due to staff shortages.) I used to see patients in the pharmacy in the consultation room, no bookings or appointments and not knowing if they had COVID, social distancing was not possible.

I'm sorry to come across really negative but if anyone has any relatives or family considering working in healthcare, unless they absolutely love it to bits DO NOT DO IT.

No wonder why people are switching careers and leaving the healthcare sector.

 

[m4rmite]

This is quite shocking, I know in my field (healthcare) people are leaving to work in GP surgeries or switch into data analysis/science.

So far I've done a 4 year degree and then 1 year of intensive training. Combined with several years of experience, so I'm no longer considered a junior.

Then to stand out from the crowd I've done almost 3 years of postgraduate studies and the result is I'm on £40-45k which is not good enough in my opinion. (I'm sorry if I sound ungrateful). Meanwhile I've spoken to people that have gone from 30k to 75k within 3-5 years of starting a new career in data or a field within I.T that is high in demand.

To add insult to injury some of these jobs are either remote working or hybrid working, during the pandemic pharmacists (along with other healthcare workers) were at the frontline. No days off (I couldn't even take annual leave due to staff shortages.) I used to see patients in the pharmacy in the consultation room, no bookings or appointments and not knowing if they had COVID, social distancing was not possible.

I'm sorry to come across really negative but if anyone has any relatives or family considering working in healthcare, unless they absolutely love it to bits DO NOT DO IT.

No wonder why people are switching careers and leaving the healthcare sector.

Just a shame the majority of gps still can't be bothered to see patients face to face.

 

[malachi]

E

This is quite shocking, I know in my field (healthcare) people are leaving to work in GP surgeries or switch into data analysis/science.

So far I've done a 4 year degree and then 1 year of intensive training. Combined with several years of experience, so I'm no longer considered a junior.

Then to stand out from the crowd I've done almost 3 years of postgraduate studies and the result is I'm on £40-45k which is not good enough in my opinion. (I'm sorry if I sound ungrateful). Meanwhile I've spoken to people that have gone from 30k to 75k within 3-5 years of starting a new career in data or a field within I.T that is high in demand.

To add insult to injury some of these jobs are either remote working or hybrid working, during the pandemic pharmacists (along with other healthcare workers) were at the frontline. No days off (I couldn't even take annual leave due to staff shortages.) I used to see patients in the pharmacy in the consultation room, no bookings or appointments and not knowing if they had COVID, social distancing was not possible.

I'm sorry to come across really negative but if anyone has any relatives or family considering working in healthcare, unless they absolutely love it to bits DO NOT DO IT.

No wonder why people are switching careers and leaving the healthcare sector.

One thing I have learnt, jobs which make people feel good such as healthcare, unless you are an doctor running your own practice. You are NEVER going to be paid well in the UK or the US because there is always someone else who is going to do the job.

Same with being a teacher, pay is bad, hours are long but in a field were people prioritize emotions instead of pay then that's the result you get. Overworked and underpaid.

 

[shifty_uk]

I thought doctors and teachers were generally paid well?

The problem now is that no one is going to do the job in your place which is why such professions are stretched.

We’re also suffering from rising living costs and a society that thinks their owed 100k regardless of the job they do.

 

[Nevakonaza]

Anyone else finding their work is struggling to hire or retain staff. Where is everyone going?

Its only going to get worse too when those people who work 35/45+ hours in NMW jobs still struggle with the ever increasing bills etc if they have a family ,A lot of people are sick of working to death (In physical jobs), Been underpaid, Been treated like...only to struggle end of the month for it anyway. People are starting to hit their limits on Work/Life balance because what's the point in working more than 40+ hours a week, You're working your life away. That's no life.

 

[cheesefest]

At my department at work - we had 6 colleagues leave in 6 months - 2 retired, 2 sacked (non attendance and being very aggressive with physical contact with a customer) and 2 for other reasons. Plus got 2 on long term sick. Very dubious with one of them returning as she has had 7.5 months off already with different things. One of them was for feeling ill after a covid vaccine - was off 8 weeks! Plus she said to me the last time I saw her "I'm seeing my GP to get 3 months off sick for stress caused by staff shortages". Last week, she had another sick note for three months. She has no clue what stress we are going through. Plus when myself and a few colleagues saw our GPs for stress (from daughter having tough times during last weeks of pregnancy to bereavement) - we were give 2-3 weeks! The other colleagues that had time off sick for post vaccine unwellness had a combined 3 weeks off - including myself. Plus she turns up late every shift and makes mistakes.

Plus at the moment - its peak annual leave time. I'm off early next month.

No one has been replaced. We have to struggle and its affecting my anxiety and asthma all the time. Getting grey hairs 12-15 years younger than my parents. Does that say something? Customers don't understand this at all. Even one customer said that we should have our annual leave cancelled. What a bloody ridiculous thing to say. I am certainly need my annual leave. The rudeness, abusive and zero patience from customers is getting to me now. You see them walk to the kiosk and see a colleague or myself serving a customer and tut/sigh as have to queue. I even turned away a couple at the kiosk wanting me to serve them with their 50 items. I said I am sorry, you have far too many items - we accept 5 or fewer or a bit more if they are buying tobacco or doing lottery/scratchcards. They moaned that there was only one till open. I said, no one else has tried to come to me before and queue up like everyone else. If I did serve them, what would have happened was 1. Other customers will think its OK to be served by me with a trolley full and 2. Say "when I came in you were serving a customer with lots of shopping" then feel reluctant to serve them. Then another customer sees me doing this....

I am wanting to leave retail after 15 years. The covid pandemic has brought the worst in some people and have to endure it everyday. Customers say why can't we ring colleagues asking them to go into work? No overtime at the moment, need colleagues at scheduled times and colleagues have plans outside work.

This is why everyone needs to work in retail for a minimum of 6 months.

 

[cheesefest]

Underpaid, overworked and treated like **** probably. Especially in health care.

And retail

 

[cheesefest]

But… what are they living on? There’s a large portion of skilled staff having a good go at their side hustle from what I can see but construction companies are struggling to hire junior labourers, retailers cant get warehouse staff, there’s a shortage of nurses..

One of my mum's friends did this. She was due to retire Nov 2021 and was made redundant in April 2020 after working 26 years there. Plus her private pensions from her other places she worked paid lump sums. Then her FIL died and estate passed onto her husband (only surviving child) onto them

 

[flibbage0]

At my department at work - we had 6 colleagues leave in 6 months - 2 retired, 2 sacked (non attendance and being very aggressive with physical contact with a customer) and 2 for other reasons. Plus got 2 on long term sick. Very dubious with one of them returning as she has had 7.5 months off already with different things. One of them was for feeling ill after a covid vaccine - was off 8 weeks! Plus she said to me the last time I saw her "I'm seeing my GP to get 3 months off sick for stress caused by staff shortages". Last week, she had another sick note for three months. She has no clue what stress we are going through. Plus when myself and a few colleagues saw our GPs for stress (from daughter having tough times during last weeks of pregnancy to bereavement) - we were give 2-3 weeks! The other colleagues that had time off sick for post vaccine unwellness had a combined 3 weeks off - including myself. Plus she turns up late every shift and makes mistakes.

Plus at the moment - its peak annual leave time. I'm off early next month.

No one has been replaced. We have to struggle and its affecting my anxiety and asthma all the time. Getting grey hairs 12-15 years younger than my parents. Does that say something? Customers don't understand this at all. Even one customer said that we should have our annual leave cancelled. What a bloody ridiculous thing to say. I am certainly need my annual leave. The rudeness, abusive and zero patience from customers is getting to me now. You see them walk to the kiosk and see a colleague or myself serving a customer and tut/sigh as have to queue. I even turned away a couple at the kiosk wanting me to serve them with their 50 items. I said I am sorry, you have far too many items - we accept 5 or fewer or a bit more if they are buying tobacco or doing lottery/scratchcards. They moaned that there was only one till open. I said, no one else has tried to come to me before and queue up like everyone else. If I did serve them, what would have happened was 1. Other customers will think its OK to be served by me with a trolley full and 2. Say "when I came in you were serving a customer with lots of shopping" then feel reluctant to serve them. Then another customer sees me doing this....

I am wanting to leave retail after 15 years. The covid pandemic has brought the worst in some people and have to endure it everyday. Customers say why can't we ring colleagues asking them to go into work? No overtime at the moment, need colleagues at scheduled times and colleagues have plans outside work.

This is why everyone needs to work in retail for a minimum of 6 months.

This sounds awful, not worth it if it's affecting your health. Even if you're being paid mega £ I still wouldn't do it long term. Assess the situation if it isn't going to get better anytime soon then I would hand my notice in.

 

[HangTime]

I thought doctors and teachers were generally paid well?

The problem now is that no one is going to do the job in your place which is why such professions are stretched.

We’re also suffering from rising living costs and a society that thinks their owed 100k regardless of the job they do.

Doctors are paid "OK" once they become consultants.
Teachers are not unless they are head teachers.

This is quite shocking, I know in my field (healthcare) people are leaving to work in GP surgeries or switch into data analysis/science.

So far I've done a 4 year degree and then 1 year of intensive training. Combined with several years of experience, so I'm no longer considered a junior.

Then to stand out from the crowd I've done almost 3 years of postgraduate studies and the result is I'm on £40-45k which is not good enough in my opinion. (I'm sorry if I sound ungrateful). Meanwhile I've spoken to people that have gone from 30k to 75k within 3-5 years of starting a new career in data or a field within I.T that is high in demand.

To be honest it sounds like you've only done a few years of actual work so >£40k is not that bad. It's not a junior salary. 3 years of PG study (do you have an MSc yet?) is all well and good but that in itself doesn't make the powers that be fall over themselves to hand over big wedges of cash. I did 4 years of PG study but didn't expect that to give me more money, it didn't suddenly make me significantly better at my job or more intelligent. Pharmacists are relatively well paid (band 8?) for healthcare compared to nursing etc.
I sound a bit negative here and you're self-aware enough to acknowledge that you may sound ungrateful but I guess the point I'm making is that your nearly 8 years of study and intensive training doesn't give you a divine right to a £50k+ job. If it's public sector(?) then it's a fait accompli anyway you are stuck with whatever the band/increments say and you'll never break out of that no matter how many letters after your name or pieces of paper you can flourish. If it's private sector then you need to look at what a realistic target role is to get the money you think you deserve is. It won't come knocking on your door, you need to go out and find it, and keep in mind if the state of healthcare is as you describe there may be a dozen other applicants in the same boat all wanting some progression for that tiny number of senior roles, they tick all the boxes, they've got MSc this and PhD that, they've written relevant papers, they've got a 2:1 or above and straight As at A-level.

The boom in junior progression in data/IT is a relatively new phenomenon, it used to take longer to move up that ladder but for sure there are a lot of shortcuts being taken now. What took 10 years in the noughties/deccies takes 5 years in the deccies/twenties.

 

[cheesefest]

This sounds awful, not worth it if it's affecting your health. Even if you're being paid mega £ I still wouldn't do it long term. Assess the situation if it isn't going to get better anytime soon then I would hand my notice in.

I have said to my parents, I am not doing another Xmas there. Gives me 6 months to leave the bloody place. The dept struggle when I am off - annual leave, sickness and days off. . Might give them that needed kick up the backside to recruit staff. Colleagues have said to me that when I have been on holiday, it feels like 3 colleagues are off together as i do so much work for the dept. So they will be losing '3 colleagues'

Another point to add. Last month, my store was going through a partial refit both shop floor and staff areas. All the dust from the sawing/sanding of wood and fumes from solvents (paint, floor glue) caused my asthma attack. When stores had these kind of refits, they closed for a few days. Profit before employees' health

 

[flibbage0]

Doctors are paid "OK" once they become consultants.
Teachers are not unless they are head teachers.


To be honest it sounds like you've only done a few years of actual work so >£40k is not that bad. It's not a junior salary. 3 years of PG study (do you have an MSc yet?) is all well and good but that in itself doesn't make the powers that be fall over themselves to hand over big wedges of cash. I did 4 years of PG study but didn't expect that to give me more money, it didn't suddenly make me significantly better at my job or more intelligent. Pharmacists are relatively well paid (band 8?) for healthcare compared to nursing etc.
I sound a bit negative here and you're self-aware enough to acknowledge that you may sound ungrateful but I guess the point I'm making is that your nearly 8 years of study and intensive training doesn't give you a divine right to a £50k+ job. If it's public sector(?) then it's a fait accompli anyway you are stuck with whatever the band/increments say and you'll never break out of that no matter how many letters after your name or pieces of paper you can flourish. If it's private sector then you need to look at what a realistic target role is to get the money you think you deserve is. It won't come knocking on your door, you need to go out and find it, and keep in mind if the state of healthcare is as you describe there may be a dozen other applicants in the same boat all wanting some progression for that tiny number of senior roles, they tick all the boxes, they've got MSc this and PhD that, they've written relevant papers, they've got a 2:1 or above and straight As at A-level.

The boom in junior progression in data/IT is a relatively new phenomenon, it used to take longer to move up that ladder but for sure there are a lot of shortcuts being taken now. What took 10 years in the noughties/deccies takes 5 years in the deccies/twenties.

The reason why I mentioned sounding ungrateful is because I know some people out there have been struggling to find work. However I disagree with the way the system is. What price do you put on health?

Surely that comes 1st, so why doesn't it pay the best? Why are nurses, pharmacists etc getting shafted? Used to be the case of being underpaid but at least we had enough staff. Now it's being underpaid and being understaffed. The number of pharmacist and pharmacy technician roles available at the moment is alarming.

Yet it doesn't follow the basic economic laws of supply and demand due to it being public sector. As for private work, it's almost non-existent for pharmacists. I have only met one pharmacist that has worked for a private hospital and even then the pay is around the same.

 

[HangTime]

I think you kind of answered your own question, I assume it's just because it is public sector and there isn't enough money to pay bigger salaries and they also have the rigid banded pay structures to deal with.
Before Brexit you had foreign workers to fill vacancies but that has dried up. In the private sector this would drive wage inflation but it's limited here.

Pharmacists are reasonably well paid compared to median roles but the barriers to entry are quite high, people might say "yes I'm happy to do that job for that money" but if they are expected to have a MPharm and then another year's specialist training it's not something they can easily pivot into even if they have the desire and competence/aptitude. Same with nursing, which now requires a degree when it didn't use to and I believe funding/bursaries are also lower than they used to be.

So what you have now is constrained supply but with a rigid pay structure. And it's those barriers to entry that kind of play a part in the wage stagnation too, I mean if they added 50% to the pay overnight and people said 'OMG I'm gonna be a pharmacist and earn the big bucks innit" it's not like they would get immediately swamped with applicants, cos they have to undergo training first. It might reduce the numbers leaving the profession, and maybe even tempt a few people back, but fundamentally it's a very inelastic model compared to the private sector. So the benefit from raising wages would take a while to be realised, decision makers don't think that far ahead because they might be out of power by the time their actions come to fruition.

 

[Delvis]

Yeah our place is going through a spat.

One guy left before Xmas who'd been there like 8 years, then another guy left who'd been there ages, now another guys just leaving.

All of them with so much internal knowledge it's a massive blow, we only have one role replaced so far, and he's not doing half the stuff the other guy did.

This is HE sector. Can't keep the staff, can't hire anyone willing to fill their shoes (because they had a massive workload) so probably go down the pan eventually.