Students, any negative views towards the constant talk of making Univeristy "More accessible"?

thepeganator

thepeganator

thepeganator

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I'm a student, been at uni for a few years, and am starting to get a little annoyed at the constant talk of making university "more accessible" to student of "poorer backgrounds".

Firstly I better say that I was against the tuition fees hike, although I do understand why it happened, I believe it will do nothing in the short term (5 years) to alleviate any problems. The government will have to loan the money to the universities at first anyway, and will not start seeing any money back for at LEAST 4 years, and will not make it back for decades.

In my years at uni I have received a small amount of money (~£500) from my Mum (who is better off than my Dad/Stepmum) in my first year after my loan didn't come through till Christmas (3 months of living of my summer savings).
Other than that I have got nothing from anyone..
I have a job (started this week), I run a car, have for the last year, had a job a year ago for 6 months, and worked the summer before last.
I don't need the job, but I want to keep my car and I want to go on holiday this summer with my girlfriend and my climbing club.

I know a lot of people who come from poor backgrounds, and a lot of people who come from richer backgrounds.
The talk of Universities having to spend more and more money on poorer students and the constant media attention saying "people wont be able to afford to go to university" is getting to me. And I know I am not the only one.

There is a loan for the tuition fees.
There is a maintenance loan for your living expenses.
There are already many state grants, and even more university grants for those that need them.
At Portsmouth there is even a "hardship fund", £500 if you are really struggling with money mid term. Doesn't matter how you get there, if you are struggling they will help you.

I haven't paid a PENNY towards my going to university tuition fees, I have worked yes, but because I wanted to have more luxuries, NOT because it is necessary.
And I wont pay back anything until I leave and have a job paying well enough to be able to afford it!

There is no reason for people to worry about the cost of university, the loans and grants are already out there, you don't pay a thing back till you start earning, you simply don't need to worry about it.

Its articles like this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12665503
That gets to me, why should people have to pay different amounts? Regardless of your background, you can afford to do university without any parental help whatsoever. I have proved this, and so have others I know too.

Just feels like media scaremongering, making people worried, making prospective students think they can't afford it whereas they can.

TL;DR: Media making people think they can't afford it when they can, they don't pay a penny till they finish, no parental help is needed at all, you can do it all on the maintenance loan.
 
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I'm in two minds about this. Part of me still agrees with the old fashioned view that university isn't for everyone, however I think it's fair that everyone has a chance to get a degree and have access to higher education.
It's a tough call tbh, I can't say I was pleased when I first heard about the increased hike for tuition fees, but it won't affect me (until I have kids, and even then when that time comes around the fees could be even more!)

Also, I didn't know you were at Portsmouth? What year are you in and what are you studying??
 
thepeganator said:
...I believe it will do nothing in the short term (5 years) to alleviate any problems. The government will have to loan the money to the universities at first anyway, and will not start seeing any money back for at LEAST 4 years, and will not make it back for decades.
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That's not the point. It makes a difference to public finances whether the money is given to HE or loaned to HE (individual students). A gift (the old funding system) is gone, the loan is an asset.
 
People these days want everything for free. Education does have a cost, but I'd rather see a system introduced that reduced the cost of those who succeed. When I was in uni (ok ten years ago) so many people dropped out, missed classes and just didn't give a toss. I suspect not much has changed. It kills me to think that people who want to go can't as they simply cannot afford to yet people who don't want to work yet go to spunge away loan money / grants etc... and either end up with a rubbish qalification or drop out.
 
Maccy said:
I'm in two minds about this. Part of me still agrees with the old fashioned view that university isn't for everyone, however I think it's fair that everyone has a chance to get a degree and have access to higher education.
It's a tough call tbh, I can't say I was pleased when I first heard about the increased hike for tuition fees, but it won't affect me (until I have kids, and even then when that time comes around the fees could be even more!)

Also, I didn't know you were at Portsmouth? What year are you in and what are you studying??
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I think that everyone should have the chance to go to university, and I'm feel that if you have the drive you can, regardless of your background.
The current fees and the future fees make no discrimination of your background, anyone can go as long as you have the grades, money doesn;t play apart at all as you don't pay anything back until after. Which you should be able to afford as you have a degree and should be earning more if you tried hard enough ;)

And I'm second year here, doing Maths (did a year in Kingston, came here straight into my second year, didn't like my course last year, so changed it and am doing my second year again due to that :)
 
clv101 said:
That's not the point. It makes a difference to public finances whether the money is given to HE or loaned to HE (individual students). A gift (the old funding system) is gone, the loan is an asset.
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Very true.
I wasn't against it due to the lack of benifit it would do to the economy tbh, more the principle.
I completely understand why it was done.

Just the fact that it has gone from free before 1998, to £1000 after, to £3000 in 1994, to £9000 in 2012.
From free to £27,000 (3 year course) in 14 years.
 
What angers me more is the uproar about the scrapping of the EMA. I haven't known a single person who actually needed it. It's just extra money for people to spend on luxuries.
University should be based on the best academic students, and it's a fact that those who have more money and go to private schools get better grades than poorer people. It's a simple fact of life. We shouldn't be readdressing this issue at higher level education but work it out (if it does need to be fixed) at the beginning of your educational career.
 
What I think is bad about the current and past state of tuition fees is the one-fee-fits-every-course way each University operates. With this fee hike it makes it even worse.

Sciences (Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc.) require:
Books
Labs
Lab techs
Equipment
Equipment maintenance
Consumables (the more expensive kind...)
Teaching staff
Support staff
Somewhere in the region of 15-20hrs/week being taught.

Humanities (History, English, etc.) require:
Books
Teaching staff
Support staff
From what I've heard in second/third years, 6hrs being "taught" seems about right


Both courses will cost £9,000/year now :(
 
thepeganator said:
My housemate doing Architecture and Interior Design does 4 hours a week.
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That can't be BA/Bsc (hons) Architecture surely? Mine was around 35hrs/week contact time... :confused:


edit:

I'm also in two minds - I don't think your financial background should dictate the right to go to university...

However, the degree is so diluted of value that a sharp reduction in course numbers should be implemented; there are too many graduates for available roles.

Make university elite in terms of ability and skills; not wallet.
 
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Jingo... said:
That can't be BA/Bsc (hons) Architecture surely? Mine was around 35hrs/week contact time... :confused:


edit:

I'm also in two minds - I don't think your financial background should dictate the right to go to university...

However, the degree is so diluted of value that a sharp reduction in course numbers should be implemented; there are too many graduates for available roles.

Make university elite in terms of ability and skills; not wallet.
Click to expand...

Yep the very same.
She does a LOT of work outside of lectures etc, I am not trying to take anything away from her, she tried really really hard and does more work than me! Just the teaching time and resources doesn't compare...

Too many people go to uni, it's becoming less and less worth it, so many people I meet just shouldn't be here :/
 
I feel that the money would probably be better spent on giving support based on students financial background and performance. I disagree with Ema but I feel that if someone is doing well and is from a poor background they should get as much help as they need.It should be emphasized on not filtering applicants but there should be incentives for people from poor backgrounds. I am a student at college, many of the students are just in for the Ema and don't effort put any effort in at all, if there was incentives for students to do well then it would be a much different story and there would hardly be a need for this equality filtering that many of the Universities do.
 
Second year maths/physics here.

I get a bit more than the standard loan + some grant and last year got a bursary as well. All because my combined parental income is beneath £36k. Whereas most of my friends have much higher parental incomes and receive the bare minimum loan because of that.

Did I need the money because I'm from a poorer background? Ha, no. I went on two holidays bought an expensive PC, and put the rest in ISA/stocks.
All the while my friends were dipping into their overdrafts.


The current system is anything but fair, and that comes from someone who benefits greatly from it.
 
What University is she at then?

That course sounds abysmal - tutored studio time should look to rack up around 14 hours a week on its own... let alone lectures, workshops et al...
 
My timetabled hours at university over the past 3 years has been disappointing to say the least. I can't exactly remember the first 2 years, but last semester I was timetabled for 7 hours on one day and this semester I'm due to be in for 7 hours as well, spread over 3 days. I think we worked out that it was something like ~£90 per hour from our fees!
 
The point of the thread was making it more accessible to poorer people, or people complaining it isn't more accessible.

Previously you had to qualify in several ways to get extra money if you didn't have it available, not every person from a rich background have parents who will pay for uni or for their kids after 18 or whatever.

THe op is right, the new system makes it equally fair and gives you more money upfront (before you get a job) for uni every year and poor/rich people are in the same situation.

Because I didn't want to sponge off my parents who make decent money I got a smaller loan because of their money, and had to pay fee's from loan so I had smeg all to live on.

Uni for the poor, or being hard to get into because you're poor is and always has been a myth, you were always entitled to a heck of a lot more money every year the poorer you were, my poorest friends at uni got the most money, the most extra hardship funds and grants and spent the most going out.......

AS for WHO should go to uni, everyone should have a fair shot, and frankly IF you want to borrow an extra 1-2k a year just to make life easier at uni and be fully willing to pay that back afterwards in the same way as normal student loan, that should be fully possible, but everyone getting in regardless of ability is utterly ridiculous because Uni has gone down the drain in terms of quality in the past decade due to the "we welcome anyone, genius or retard alike" policy.


As for if someone doing sciences should pay the same as someone doing an arts degree with less time in the lecture hall.

Lectures are EASY teaching, its mostly reading through the same thing term after term for 30 years, thats the small easy part of teaching.

Maths is VERY black and white when it comes to checking papers and test results. English, history, its completely subjective, while a maths/computing once a month test can be done online and results simply given to the lecturers, and English essay needs CAREFUL reading, conclusions need to be read, conclusions need to be based upon things said in the rest of the paper.

Teaching isn't all about face to face work, and certainly isn't about basic lectures, a English lit leturer might read 30 hours of essays a week while a maths lecturer never ever reads a test paper.
 
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