Studio lighting thread

James J · 30 Jun 2012 at 19:09

I've just taken the plunge into studio lighting to further improve shots I make money from and I was wondering what gear other people have or are looking at buying!

I spent just short of £400 on a single light setup by lencarta, with a boom arm, 140x70cm soft box and elite pro 300w flash head which can do unto 1/2000th second speeds to eliminate the need for black or white backgrounds. I wanted a large soft box so I can really get to grips with specular lighting and garry edwards over at talk photography has given me some great insight into it. Also picked up a 5 in 1 reflector (80cm) for when I need to produce other effects with my setup, including further reducing shadows from specific angles, without destroying them.

I was looking at some of the cheap stuff on ebay but the quality of it is generally regarded to be bad and the soft boxes are all tiny, making their uses very limited unless you upgraded instantly. I also don't need multiple lights for what I have in mind, which I'll show some shots off as and when the stuff arrives!

I'll take some photos of the lighting setup also as a learning tool for others like myself going into this sort of photography if people show an interest in that

James J · 1 Jul 2012 at 16:14

GSXRMovistar said:
What sort of images are you trying to capture? Any examples? As I guess that would determine what/if any additional gear you needed.

If it's portraits a beauty dish could be a good addition to use with the boom arm.

Not doing portraits, doing creative scene and product style shots. Got exactly whats required to do both in my setup

James J · 1 Jul 2012 at 16:15

An Exception said:
I got some quality softboxes off the bay tbh, I like the ones that open like an umbrella.
Personally parabolic umbrella's are my favourite, the brand I like that is cheap but very high quality is Hobo.

Octoboxes? I was looking at the bay for some cheaper alternatives to the lencarta stuff but theres no indication on quality what so ever, or more importantly, fitting type -.-

James J · 1 Jul 2012 at 17:07

An Exception said:
Most of them are Bowens or Elinchrom, lencarta probably uses bowens

They never seem to list what they are though on ebay so its hard to tell what sort of light modifiers fit on the cheap heads.

James J · 1 Jul 2012 at 17:24

Nice find, however its not as long and thin as I require! Do you have any studio lighting at the moment? If so take some photos of the setup buddy!

James J · 1 Jul 2012 at 18:03

Can't really say too much at the moment but I'll show you some results and why I need the bigger soft box late next week.

James J · 1 Jul 2012 at 21:12

GSXRMovistar said:
My fault sped read your post and read it as you were looking for extra bits. Doh!

As for what i'd like I wouldn't mind some larger soft boxes for my elite pros and again a beauty dish would be fun to play with.

What is tempting but I can't justify it as yet would be the safari li-on setup, got to play with one a few weeks back it's a great bit of kit.

Yeah the power of them especially is something rarely seen tbh. The price of the safari li on's are also really reasonable. I'll let you know how I get on with the 70x140 soft box they do.

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 14:06

Everythings arrived a day late but I had the chance of taking some first shots tomorrow which can be seen in the pictures thread on here.

Setup looks like this atm

DSC_0694 by jjohnson2012, on Flickr

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 15:53

I don't want white backgrounds though or heavily photoshopped images. For that you need studio lighting unless you want some very harsh shadows. You've got one in that image on the bottle cap, losing detail and drawing the eye from the reflection. Looks really out of place on a very bright image with a white background. My 2p of course, yet my decision for my setup is based on a lot of research into exactly the sort of shots I want to do

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 16:21

Bigger light manipulators require more powerful lighting. Softboxes are required to be 3x larger than what they are taking a photo of to have the absolute best effect on light softness and specular highlights. I'm not saying you can't use a speed light to do product shots at all, but you will be limited down the line in regards to exactly what type of shots you want to do. Plus by the time you start adding all the bits and bobs needed to get those better shots, you might as well have just bought mono bloc head anyway.

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 17:35

AHarvey said:
Care to point out where these "very harsh shadows" are on that bottle cap, because I just can't see them or we have very different ideas what a harsh shadow is.

Even for product shots I would personally be using 2 lights + light modifiers, reflectors/bounce cards, background and maybe a sheet of perspex.

My normal portrait system is 2 lencarta studio lights + softboxes and then varying the use of 2 sb900's/modifiers depending on the effect and background.

I did point out where they are so I won't repeat whats already there in black and white.

Why two lights and 2 speed lights? Its more than easy to do it right with one for most shots. The only time you need a second light is if you want to add depth to the photograph to try and pull it away from the background.

Also using a background is pointless unless you want it coloured anything other than black, which is what I personally enjoy. Not a fan of "chavgrounds" nor photographs where every single shadow has been removed on what is usually a plain white, boring, photograph.

Do you dispute that mono blocs have a use over speed lights? The argument put forward to me in my own thread was why get a mono bloc head when a flash does the same job, which is kinda like saying "why get a DSLR when an iPad does the same job".

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 17:56

An Exception said:
You must be used to TTL when you had a flash. What your ignoring is the fact that a speed light has more than enough power to fill just about any light modifier for smallish product work.

Type 'photography inverse square law' into google to get up to speed...

Oh, and the reflection was done 'in-camera', no Photoshop required.

For the record I still have a flash as I didn't bin it when I got my mono bloc head (like I would anyway :S).

Google mono bloc vs speed light pros and cons and you'll find that the only advantage that the speed lights have are weight and portability. Everything else is in favour of mono blocs.

You are limiting yourself to "smallish" product shots with your method.

An Exception said:
huh?

Corrected

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 18:35

AHarvey said:
No you said "You've got one in that image on the bottle cap, losing detail and drawing the eye from the reflection."

I want to know exactly where on that bottle cap you think there is a harsh shadow, because there isn't.

In a completely white photograph, yes there is lol.

While it is more than possible to shoot a small product with one light, once you start moving on to bigger subjects, or more subjects in the same shot having the extra lights really makes it easier. You can also start adding gels to strobes to change background colours.

Yeah when you start getting to washing machine size and above products. For anything less, primary light and a reflector is more than enough light.

Have you told the rest of the photography community about how backgrounds are useless? I think they might disagree.

For what I do they are, so don't try lecturing me that I must use one, because I really don't need to thanks.

well, I have complete control over my strobes from my camera without having to move a step towards one of them. They are ideal for carrying around to locations and great in small spaces, only down side is the cost for me as mine were £340 new each.

This is something I don't require though at all otherwise I would have gone and bought a completely different setup. I fully agree that if I was outside taking shots, battery powered setups are more than ideal for such photographs. Remember though, I DONT do portrait photography, which is the biggest use of outdoor mono bloc heads.

My studio lights are good for studio work, but tbh, if I had the cash the only time I would actually choose them over strobes would be outdoor work when I had to overpower the sun and run from battery packs.

See above, I agree that if I shot outdoors and required outdoor lighting (weddings, events photography etc) then I'd also go down the same route. However I don't do this type of photography and never will as I don't enjoy portrait photography at all.

I don't mean for this to sound rude, but I know it will. You come across like someone who has done a lot of reading and research in to a subject, but has taken it all as gospel. Gerry Edwards is very knowledgeable regarding lighting, but don't forget, his ultimate aim is to sell you stuff, and lencarta don't do strobes.

Nah thats fair enough, but just because I take advice doesn't mean I also don't take it with a pinch of salt. I weighed up all the options open to me within my budget and the setup I have reflects user reviews, product reviews, lighting tutorial websites verdicts and technical specs. Garry Edwards opinion is just a factor into these things.

Everyone has different needs, and there are lots of ways of doing each thing. Perhaps you should start a "light this" thread and post an example of a shot, and then a setup shot and ask other people to post how they would get the same result and I bet you'll get several ways for each photo.

That was actually the aim of this thread. I wanted people to post their setups and then move onto showing what could be done with them, with a tutorial afterwards if people asked how it was done. Instead its turning into a weird argument about "1 size fits all" attitude to photography, which just isn't the case (as I'm sure you and everyone else knows)

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 19:08

An Exception said:
No offence mate as I didn't want to have to say this, but I think you need to curb your attitude. I think you think you know more than you actually do...

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. There an attitude on this forum where a few members seem to think they are members of an exclusive club and anyone outside of their little group is just wrong with whatever they come out with. You and others come under this and the thread filled with photos is a great example where you and a few others only ever comment on each others work, whilst everyone else never gets a mention.

As for the tilt shift lens, I'll only ever look into one if I actually require one, which is highly doubtful.

I want to keep this thread going, regardless of conflicting attitudes when it comes to the implementation of this sort of lighting so lets put this behind us and move on. If you want to take this further, feel free to PM me and we'll take this to email instead so that the thread isn't derailed even more.

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 19:59

Take it to email if you have anything else to say as I want the thread to continue in its original function. If you want a response to what you just put, email me

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 20:08

Sigh, so damn mature.

An Exception said:
You don't need the power of studio gear to do that, just some cheap yongnou speed lights would have worked just as well.

When you post such misinformation as that, its bound to get a comment back isn't it. Get over yourself.

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 20:15

What I've shown above? What are you even on about? You've not even seen one of the photos I've done with my setup as you haven't asked :S

I've already said that as well in one of the earlier posts...

James J · 5 Jul 2012 at 20:18

AHarvey said:
hmmm this has gone from a heated debate (which is fine) and is now verging on the edge of personal attacks I feel.

James J, I never said you had to use a background by the way, just that saying they aren't needed isn't true. I've taken product shots using 1 sheet of glass and used the wall behind.

James, I really think you should request this be closed. Then start another thread about lighting challenges. Post a photo of a product and then one of the setup and ask others how they would light it, with examples I think you'll get much more feedback and interest from that thread

Best of luck to you

Thats fair enough mate and yeah I'm just using a wall which is about 2 metres away from the back of my shots as the light falls off dramatically behind my shots anyway, giving me the black background I seek with some nice soft lighting also.

I already have requested it to be closed after I initially requested it to be cleaned. I won't be posting another thread though on this subject as it'll just get trashed again so its pointless. No point running an argument over into a fresh thread, especially when trying to introduce more people into this kind of area which is a pure minefield in terms of research, equipment and setups.

James J · 6 Jul 2012 at 15:28

glitch said:
Would you be so kind as to point me in the direction of these images?

It's always interesting to see just how 'work' images compare to those from a photographer's 'everyday' shots, which I assume are the ones on your flickr and 500px links?

Does that mean that these were shot with this new lighting set-up of yours?

Nope, those are from just a reflector as I didn't have a suitable base or location for my setup then.

Still awaiting a black glossy panel to be delivered, then I'll be taking some shots. The ones I've taken at the moment are only basic stock test shots, which aren't creative in the slightest and don't show the full potential of the setup.

I'll have something to show most likely next weekend but I doubt this thread will still be going at that point anyway.

James J · 6 Jul 2012 at 16:16

I'm not sharing my photos that regularly make money as that would be just stupid as people could copy the ideas and just sell them as their own. I said I'd get round to it "tomorrow" but I haven't as I'm still awaiting some glass, coloured acrylic and wood bases to arrive before I can go forward with a few ideas I have. I won't be posting my images at all though now due to how this thread has turned out.

Not sure what you are trying to read into to be fair mate.