Hi guys Im looking to buy a relatively cheap sub to complement my Dali Epicon 2 and Yamaha AS3000 amp with Yamaha CDS3000 DAC. What are you thouigh ts on BK subs in £500 ish mark vs subs such as REL T9x etc. I dont have a set budget yet as if it worth to pay more I would wait a month and pay the difference. Cheers guys!
Subwoofer Recommendation
- Thread starter SamyBoy13
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Epicon... very nice. I've got Oberons, but looking to swap my centre to the Opticon Vokal for that ribbon tweeter.
I've got the BK XLS300-FF and it certainly feels like it punches far above its price point. My room is 64.5m³ and I've only got it at half gain and in the app it's turned down to -2dB as well, so plenty of power. Goes down to the inaudible vibratiing frequencies and shakes right through me in certain films. Great customer service and I believe much of it is serviable as well.
I've got the BK XLS300-FF and it certainly feels like it punches far above its price point. My room is 64.5m³ and I've only got it at half gain and in the app it's turned down to -2dB as well, so plenty of power. Goes down to the inaudible vibratiing frequencies and shakes right through me in certain films. Great customer service and I believe much of it is serviable as well.
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Usual bk recommendations although they can suffer from buzzing
Dauls will help to flatten response if you can place them in ideal location , then time align them as a pair then finally time align them to the speakers and then eq the paired subs. Doing all that made my subs go from peaky response with subs cancellation each other out to +/-3db down to 10hz-120hz
Next step up would be arendel , perlisten
Dauls will help to flatten response if you can place them in ideal location , then time align them as a pair then finally time align them to the speakers and then eq the paired subs. Doing all that made my subs go from peaky response with subs cancellation each other out to +/-3db down to 10hz-120hz
Next step up would be arendel , perlisten
Would building a sub be more cost effective measure or are the BK/adrenal subs arent price that badly? Im quiet handy with woodwork yet never built a sub so not sure what goes into designing one with parts. I love my Epicon 2s yet the low end is not there below 40hz
I have a REL sub, one of the cheaper HT models, unfortunately I have nothing to compare it with. But, it seems very well built, no buzzing or odd sounds if that helps. And it sounds great for my music. Peter Tyson have a 12" "Nearly New - REL HT/1205 MKII Subwoofer" in White for £539 (if you are a member). Still get a full manufacturer’s warranty too! Review can be found here.
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Soldato
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I've had BK subs but for around that price I'd get one of the newer SVS subs with the digital EQ with the app; better all round for me.
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Depends on usage
BK has high level so for a regular hifi with high level outputs only then that's needed
Most AVR's have subwoofer EQ, so subwoofer EQ isn't needed (and means you're paying for it) or if you have antimode or minidsp it'll be better anyway. But if you have a hifi sending it low level then subwoofer PEQ is useful.
But if you have a AVR without room EQ, don't have a antimode or minidsp then a subwoofer with PEQ is handy.
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I don’t rate them vs what else you can get on the market for similar money.
The HT series is much better for the average person, and they dig deeper/hit harder than the T series.
With the system he has, I wouldn’t consider the OP to be an average person.
He has a good stereo system with AV not being mentioned.
Out of curiosity, are you basing your views on experience having compared kit, or other reviewers comments?
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Based on my own experience testing T series subs and choosing to go with HT series.
I didn’t find the T series to have much impact on the sound. It didn’t underpin the soundstage like a decent sub can.
They’re fine, but you’re paying for features which, in my experience, don’t impact the sound as much as just having a better subwoofer.
Ok, that’s cool.
I’d put my faith much more on someone who’s actually done the comparison than not.
The only caveat with the HT series being that I believe they need a low level input. Does the Yam have one?
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The right reviews are still key - something measurement based rather than a AVForums type review.
If measured correctly, with the right process and tools, you can compare different subwoofers/speakers back to back.
This is what I did for my Arendal equipment. I’d heard good things about them, but heard good things about many speakers, so wanted an objective review to see how they performed in an anechoic environment.
Not all reviews are equal
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Rel are overpriced, and they look freaking ugly to boot.
Predator doesn't really perform well under 31hz- db output drops off considerably
Music and HT demands are different, for music my sealed box is more than I could ever need- for but HT it's running close to it's limits verging on distortion. I don't have that problem now
went from one sub to three much higher performance/output subs
I would recommend duals, time align them together, then match them up to the speakers, then apply subwoofer EQ. Arendel have app EQ but I'm not sure how you would get the EQ correction to both subs.
I wouldn't recomemend a cheap sub just to say you've got one, a cheap subs (and talking really cheapo subs) will sound bad, poor response, boomy, low quality. I'd rather have no subwoofer than a cheap subwoofer.
Need to match sub to the room. There is no point in getting a one Rel T zero if you have an huge open apartment, and expect it to fill it with bass, high spl and low distortion- without it blowing up.
Mr wolf has a thread on avsforum guide which you work out room volume, expected spl needed and gives out recommendations.
Predator doesn't really perform well under 31hz- db output drops off considerably
Music and HT demands are different, for music my sealed box is more than I could ever need- for but HT it's running close to it's limits verging on distortion. I don't have that problem now
went from one sub to three much higher performance/output subsI would recommend duals, time align them together, then match them up to the speakers, then apply subwoofer EQ. Arendel have app EQ but I'm not sure how you would get the EQ correction to both subs.
I wouldn't recomemend a cheap sub just to say you've got one, a cheap subs (and talking really cheapo subs) will sound bad, poor response, boomy, low quality. I'd rather have no subwoofer than a cheap subwoofer.
Need to match sub to the room. There is no point in getting a one Rel T zero if you have an huge open apartment, and expect it to fill it with bass, high spl and low distortion- without it blowing up.
Mr wolf has a thread on avsforum guide which you work out room volume, expected spl needed and gives out recommendations.
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You mean AVForum.
ah yes.
Not sure how many db headroom I have now. A lot. Easily 10db, probably closer to 16/18db. Pretty sure will cause damage to house before run out of output. Only method of running tests is running with just the subs on, amplifiers off (or setting subwoofer output on av pre to max) Did have four subs but decided to use the fourth sub elseware as have so much headroom and decent response with three it's just not needed.
For typical UK sized living rooms say 4m x 4.5m, one SVS PB2000 Pro will be sufficient with a few dB to spare, duals better to get flatter response, and have plenty of headroom, but probably a bit imposing size x2 . Dual PB1000 Pro will be sufficient, but one PB1000 Pro might be running close to it's limits. A generisation, so use mr wolfs guide. That's for HT, for stereo you won't need anything like that, a single BK XLS 400 will be plenty, or a couple of Double Gem or XLS300 for duals to aid response.
XTZ do a couple of subs, one similar to the PB2000 Pro, and they have a triple stacked 12" which looks pretty awesome.
XTZ SUB 3X12 active subwoofer - XTZ Sound in Balance
Cinema 3X12 subwoofer. Absolute home theater specialist. Bass like an earthquake with perfect precision. The 3 x 900W amplifiers always have full control of the 3 high-end drivers.
www.xtzsound.eu
Tonewinner have a couple cheapest one
SW-D2000 12" Ported 400W Subwoofer (2,000W PEAK) - Subwoofers - ToneWinner UK | Audio Visual Product Reseller
Special introductory pricing! PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A PREORDER. CONTACT US FOR MORE INFORMATION. 5 YEAR WARRANTY AND 30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE SW-D2000 is a 12 inches powered subwoofer bass speaker with 400W (2,000W Peak) high power driving and ch
tonewinner-kalibrate.co.uk
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Since that Yamaha is a stereo integrated amp, you have no subwoofer EQ, so I'd probably consider a sub where you can use it- in case you have peaks (which causes boomy bass)
You would need to use low level, stereo pre out into a antimode SII (mic included) or minidsp (need to buy a mic) or buy a subwoofer with PEQ built in- Arendel, SVS, Tonewinner have several channels of PEQ built in. Some subwoofers have their own mic and calibration built in (high end paradigms I think have Anthem ARC)
If you're lucky you may have acceptable response from the sub without EQ.
If possible try and borrow a sub and see what response is in your room, try different locations.
You would need to use low level, stereo pre out into a antimode SII (mic included) or minidsp (need to buy a mic) or buy a subwoofer with PEQ built in- Arendel, SVS, Tonewinner have several channels of PEQ built in. Some subwoofers have their own mic and calibration built in (high end paradigms I think have Anthem ARC)
If you're lucky you may have acceptable response from the sub without EQ.
If possible try and borrow a sub and see what response is in your room, try different locations.
I have to disagree with that one, personally I findmy HT nice to look at (at the end of the day it is a square box lol). The one I have also has a small footprint, but certainly isn't "ugly". I really like the carbon cone with the name on it too. But each to their own. I would like to see them offered in a natural wood finish.
