Suitable IT universities?
- Thread starter Scythian
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You don't NEED a degree to work with computers, or to earn high doing so. If you look at most companies, they would sooner have experience and someone that has proved they know how to do things in the work place, rather than some student straight out of education who knows what the books say, but not what needs to be done in the real world.
Obviously, both is best and will get you to further places, however say you do your computer sciences degree, or whatever other computer related degree you decide to go for, and 5 years later when you have got a job find you hate it and going into it just for the money was a bad idea, what then? you have a degree you don't need any more, other than for the piece of paper, but as it isn't relevant to what you want to do, it won't hold as much weight as it should, you have wasted extortionate amounts on university, which should be in investment, not, as everyone tells you, something you MUST do, and if you decide to stick with it, you will be miserable.
Rather than go straight out to a degree, might I suggest:
http://www.zenos.com/
they put you through your A+, Network+, Microsoft and a load of other qualifications, you get paid whilst you do it and help you find a job at the end. It is only 5 months too, so say you find you don't want to work with computers any more, you walk out with qualifications, the equivalent of 3 (I think, may be 2) A-levels, they teach you interview and CV techniques, which you can use, and you haven't wasted any money, or that much time.
At that point, you can either get into a job, or go to college and you don't need to do as much work, because you already have 2 A-levels under your belt so can do just one or two, and be qualified enough for uni at that point, and then go and do something you actually want to do because you have discovered you don't like working in the IT sector.
Say it does work out though, you will be in a job in the IT industry with scope to go further and be on your higher wages, without the burden of student loans, without several years of your life in college/uni, and with more experience which, in the industry, is, as I said before, worth more.
Once you have the experience too, you can apply for uni at a late time and your experience can be used as an asset along side the qualifications, so even though you don't have the same formal qualifications as the other students you are still as qualified, or more so, so can still be accepted, and once you have that degree, will be able to rise even further
Obviously, both is best and will get you to further places, however say you do your computer sciences degree, or whatever other computer related degree you decide to go for, and 5 years later when you have got a job find you hate it and going into it just for the money was a bad idea, what then? you have a degree you don't need any more, other than for the piece of paper, but as it isn't relevant to what you want to do, it won't hold as much weight as it should, you have wasted extortionate amounts on university, which should be in investment, not, as everyone tells you, something you MUST do, and if you decide to stick with it, you will be miserable.
Rather than go straight out to a degree, might I suggest:
http://www.zenos.com/
they put you through your A+, Network+, Microsoft and a load of other qualifications, you get paid whilst you do it and help you find a job at the end. It is only 5 months too, so say you find you don't want to work with computers any more, you walk out with qualifications, the equivalent of 3 (I think, may be 2) A-levels, they teach you interview and CV techniques, which you can use, and you haven't wasted any money, or that much time.
At that point, you can either get into a job, or go to college and you don't need to do as much work, because you already have 2 A-levels under your belt so can do just one or two, and be qualified enough for uni at that point, and then go and do something you actually want to do because you have discovered you don't like working in the IT sector.
Say it does work out though, you will be in a job in the IT industry with scope to go further and be on your higher wages, without the burden of student loans, without several years of your life in college/uni, and with more experience which, in the industry, is, as I said before, worth more.
Once you have the experience too, you can apply for uni at a late time and your experience can be used as an asset along side the qualifications, so even though you don't have the same formal qualifications as the other students you are still as qualified, or more so, so can still be accepted, and once you have that degree, will be able to rise even further
A league table that has been shown to be blatantly wrong in the past posts a dubious ranking and you think I need a vested interest in order to question it?
The OP stated he was interested in something programming related and you think going down the help desk monkey route is a good idea?
Its like recommending an aspiring engineer instead take on a job as a mechanic at the local garage.
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There are IT sectors which don't require a degree - support, networking, etc. In those areas experience is more valuable.
But the OP specifically referred to programming. I couldn't name a single software house that would hire a developer without a degree in computer science or similar.
Consider the following:
- Graduates, on average, earn 10k more
- Graduates have a student loan to pay back, costs have just risen drastically (I think you're looking at 30k now)
- Graduates can advance their career further, unlocking prestigious positions/salaries
My loan was 12k, I paid it off after 3 years working. (insignificant in the bigger picture)
If it were 30k, my advice would be to never pay it off, your money will be better spent on a house deposit.
But the OP specifically referred to programming. I couldn't name a single software house that would hire a developer without a degree in computer science or similar.
Consider the following:
- Graduates, on average, earn 10k more
- Graduates have a student loan to pay back, costs have just risen drastically (I think you're looking at 30k now)
- Graduates can advance their career further, unlocking prestigious positions/salaries
My loan was 12k, I paid it off after 3 years working. (insignificant in the bigger picture)
If it were 30k, my advice would be to never pay it off, your money will be better spent on a house deposit.
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There's a lot of people doing games programming. To get a decent wage out of it you have to be outstanding at what you do.
On our course the lecturers refer to the games programmers as a slackers course lol
Good luck in whatever you do though, but as said, don't do it for the money, it's 3/4 years of your life, so make sure it's something you really enjoy and want to do!
On our course the lecturers refer to the games programmers as a slackers course lol
Good luck in whatever you do though, but as said, don't do it for the money, it's 3/4 years of your life, so make sure it's something you really enjoy and want to do!
And if you are a site technician you don't program? Maybe not create full programs, but certainly scripts. Yes, it is a fair bit different, but it is still along similar lines.
@billy, look at the majority of your larger software companies, especially games companies. Go look at Valve's requirements, Blizzard's, ZeniMax, all of them ask for experience and knowledge in C++, not any sort of degree. I agree, it helps, but I would make it a thing to do later, because of the costs, and consider the fact that he is only just starting college, and given those starting uni in September are the last to get 3k tuition fees, it will a lot more expensive when he gets to that point, and because of the fact he doesn't sound certain. It is a huge amount of money to invest in something you either aren't going to use or enjoy
I think the mechanic/engineer comparison still holds here.
Yes there might well be some older programmers who don't have degrees but in general, if you want to be a developer, why make it harder for yourself. Go to uni and get a relevant degree.
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The programming jobs all state that a bachelors degree is required.
Not really...software engineering is not the same as writing a few scripts.
All the big games companies in the uk ask for relevant degrees (maths, comp sci, physics, engineering...) in their entry level/graduate dev positions.
Because:
Why drop that much money on something you don't want to do? "anything interesting to do with computers" is so damn vague. I would never, ever invest up to £36k and 4 years of my life in something unless I was certain I was going to use it, it is just too much to go and do on a whim. between the age that I started college and when I left, what I wanted to do had changed several times.
By all means ask and research, but I wouldn't say "go to uni absolutely". There is so much you can do without going to uni, whilst still being successful and getting a decent wage, and there is always the option to go later when you have gone as far as you can on experience alone, and you know that you get job satisfaction from what you do.
No they don't:
All require C++ knowledge and experience, not a degree requirement in sight. When it comes down to it, it is probably help a lot, but if you have the knowledge, experience and a way to show it, they would sooner have you over the others
Then again doing a course that goes somewhere important helps too, having a degree you enjoyed doing but doesn't do more than be a degree is just as annoying
Those jobs are for people who are not just finished studying. For the junior jobs you'd need to get those 3 or 5 years experience in the first place, you are likely to be asked for a degree. They arent asking for a degree for these jobs because if you have been in the industry for 5 years and you are a C++ expert, checking if you have a degree would be like checking if you passed GCSE Maths, you probably did, and if you didn't you've made up for it later.
So you can't set up an independent studio, or at least write and maintain your own programs without working for another company?
You can't take on client work?
there are ways to get experience outside of the "get a degree, get a job, work for a few years"
I did say, 'and if you didn't you've made up for it later.'
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[Valve]
Those aren't jobs, those are general guidelines. These are jobs:
http://valvesoftware.hrmdirect.com/employment/view.php?req=65034&
http://valvesoftware.hrmdirect.com/employment/view.php?req=65035&
http://valvesoftware.hrmdirect.com/employment/view.php?req=65038&
Those aren't jobs, those are general guidelines. These are jobs:
http://valvesoftware.hrmdirect.com/employment/view.php?req=65034&
http://valvesoftware.hrmdirect.com/employment/view.php?req=65035&
http://valvesoftware.hrmdirect.com/employment/view.php?req=65038&
Good advice - and find a way to do more maths. A-Level maths is one of the most useful qualifications to have in my opinion.
And all of them say "or equivalent experience", or "or equivalent", which means you can have experience too instead of, however, obviously (as I have been saying from the start...) a degree would help.
:/ The equivalent refers to the subject studied. edit: 1 position out of the 3 valve jobs accepts work experience instead of a degree but it is for a senior position job so not something entry level.
And as has been mentioned - it is different for entry level positions. If you have worked in the industry for 10 years they won't care what you did at degree level. It is standard now to expect a degree for junior dev positions.
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